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Re: Carrying a defibrillator

CTC Forum - On the road - 1 September 2014 - 11:55am
Here's how to avoid the need to carry one about: get it delivered -

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/201 ... brillators

Re: Any ideas?

CTC Forum - On the road - 1 September 2014 - 11:54am
Yeah, I do the same with pannier, and think it helps. The arm idea is really a trade off, ****** off response to a couple of stupid close passes versus happy 99 percent of the time to go with the flow of traffic. In some ways it might cause more problems than it cures, I actually enjoy riding and treat interaction with other traffic as I would normally when driving. Almost wonder if I would actually come across more as a 'silly' cyclist by having something like this, still debating. Perhaps a hand on the end of the arm with the second finger raised? And for added effect, Stanley knife blades for finger nails?

Re: Tiernan-Locke banned.

CTC Forum - Racing - 1 September 2014 - 11:41am
RJS wrote:UKAD accept the drink (alcohol) for the raised levels
Doesn't look like it:
http://www.ukad.org.uk/news/article/ukad-confirms-two-year-ban-for-professional-cyclist wrote:The Panel found that the explanation provided by the rider during a hearing on 1 and 2 July 2014 did not sufficiently explain the abnormal values obtained from the sample.
Has something changed or has the local paper got it wrong?

The full written decision is available by following links from the quoted page if you want to see it.

Re: Lon Las Cymru on starting on Sat 6.9.14, campsite sugges

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 1 September 2014 - 11:40am
meic wrote:There is lots in the forum on this subject but unfortunately the key words are only 3 letters long and the search function is used to four letter words.
Google is your friend here if you do a search using

site:forum.ctc.org.uk "lon las cymru" (result)

the first bit restricts the search to the CTC forums & the quotation marks makes Google look for the phrase.

Rick.

Re: Carrying a defibrillator

CTC Forum - On the road - 1 September 2014 - 11:28am
When I last had CPR training it was being questioned due to the damage you could do the patient (I'm not kidding)
Apparently breaking a rib was bad, and could result in being sued for deliberately causing injury....

Anyhow we did the training anyway, because the instructor could see sense. Of course he was also talking about having a tattoo on his chest:

"In case of heart failure press here:X"

Re: Do I need front panniers for touring?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 1 September 2014 - 11:24am
wearwell wrote:One big drawback with front panniers is the damping effect when you are tired and going up hills heavily laden in bottom gear. The weight on the front damps the natural side to side turns - you get wobbles and use up even more energy trying to keep the bike going straight. High tyre pressure helps a bit (less resistance to turning). Next trip I do will be without them.
On fast easy terrain they are no prob at all and a damping effect is useful.
You don't have to waggle the bars around - look at the trials/stunt riders balancing on something seemingly impossibly narrow, they stay there by shifting their weight from side to side rather than turning the bars. Admittedly I'm nowhere near as good as them but, for the most part, I can ride up a steep hill at slow speeds (c3 mph) without much bar movement. I do get plenty of practice having lived 2/3 of the way up a stupidly steep hill for over 30 years - I usually either come home up 250ft ascent in the last 1/2 mile or go out up a similar gradient of about half the distance (& sometimes end up doing both in 1 trip!).

Rick.

Re: Energy, Fuel, 2nd Wind, Motivation

CTC Forum - On the road - 1 September 2014 - 11:23am
Psamathe wrote:wirral_cyclist wrote:... I've done 25m - that's when I refuel and apart from 'cafe legs' in first few hundred yards of restart I'm then good for another 25miles (repeat at 50 for a 75 too!).
jezer wrote:Refuelling the body is often overlooked, especially by newer riders. We have a cycling friendly cafe we visit sometimes on our club rides. On leaving they offer us free gels and electrolyte drink sachets. We fly back from there
Appart from caffeine (which I imagine has a pretty fast effect on the body, I would have thought with "cakes" (and similar) there must be a significant delay between eating and energy being available to muscle. Body needs to go through several processes to break it down (physically and chemically, convert "raw" materials into different forms, etc. before the muscle can use the ingested fuel. This must take some time?

Ian

I vaguely remember something about sugars being absorbed from the mouth....I'm sure someone here would know if that's nonsense. We used to carry glucose tablets on group walks in case anyone got tired. It may have been all in the mind, but they seemed to work quite fast- faster than the main digestive system could have had any effect, I would have thought.

Re: Touring bike alternatives?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 1 September 2014 - 11:03am
I went to Morroco and spain on a Rockhopper, with a couple of panniers on the back...that was eighteen years ago...It was a very good bike...

Re: Carrying a defibrillator

CTC Forum - On the road - 1 September 2014 - 10:18am
I think Swallow may have stumbled across the answer to proper medical support on club runs in this thread .

Re: Carrying a defibrillator

CTC Forum - On the road - 1 September 2014 - 10:09am
I am not a medic, but have been First aid trained and trained to use a defib. This is what I have learned.
The best chances of surviving a heart attack are early CPR, early Defib, early clot busting drugs and early to hospital.
CPR will not restart someones heart (except in Hollywood). It will give you time to get a defib. A defib will only work if it senses the right conditions, namely that the heart is fibrilating, The electrical impulses in the heart go all screwy and the heart muscle is twitching, rather than beating. The defib defibrulates the heart, meaning that it sends an electric shock to stop the heart twitching, then it can beat properly again.
If the heart is stopped and it is not fibrilating, the machine will not do anything, the person is dead.

Whether to carry one is another matter, I guess you would have to weigh up the probabilities of it happening.
A ride with a fit and health group, with no known medical problems, probably not. A ride with the heart attack survivors cycling club, probably.

Neil

Re: Carrying a defibrillator

CTC Forum - On the road - 1 September 2014 - 10:01am
I would suggest that we're not there yet in general though.

There may be specific groups who consider it, but in general they are still too expensive, and of such rare use that it's not a sane trade off.

Re: Carrying a defibrillator

CTC Forum - On the road - 1 September 2014 - 9:34am
Tonyf33 wrote:Again, similarly to the carrying additional tags etc on a helmet in case you die at the side of the road in the wilderness, what are the chances of someone having a heart attack or stop breathing whilst on a cycle ride, less than those banging their heads and having life threatening injuries.
To even consider taking a defib around is just a nonsense IMO, sorry but it's all getting a bit stupid..why not have your own ambulance following the group rides just to make sure it'll save 'just one life'.. in fact, better yet, whilst you walk down to the shops or up the stairs to bed

It was once considered impossible to have a pocket communicator device that could connect you to emergency services almost anywhere in the country but we now take mobile phones for granted. Technology changes things and what was once unthinkable sometimes needs to be reconsidered.

I'm not seriously suggesting this is likely to take off in a big way yet but the day may come when NOT carrying a cheap lightweight defibrillator to an organised group activity (often frequented by old folk with heart disease) will be considered irresponsible.

Re: Carrying a defibrillator

CTC Forum - On the road - 1 September 2014 - 9:33am
661-Pete wrote: Also I have no idea whether anyone was specifically trained on how or when to use the defib. There are first-aiders, who've done the standard training with St Johns Ambulance, would they have the know-how?



My 1st aid course: "1st aid in the workplace(sports)", was very defib heavy with the chap at one point intimating that if you've not got access to a defib then you've only got around a 5% chance of saving them. But there again he also said that the plastic that household electrical plug bodies are made from would conduct electricity!

anyhoo, with the U lock, first aid kit, a toolkit to fit most bikes, spares, and all my paperwork, etc etc there is no way I've got the room or the legs to tote another 2kg around!

Re: Tiernan-Locke banned.

CTC Forum - Racing - 1 September 2014 - 9:31am
Been away from computer access for a week, but before I went, local paper again, UKAD accept the drink (alcohol) for the raised levels, they don't accept that he wouldn't have drunk a load of water to rehydrate, he says he didn't for fear of throwing up in front of new team mates. Endura Racing stand by him, and EPO was beyond his financial means. The paper is the Hearald Express (Torbay), page 61, 21/8/14.
Cheers, Rob.

Re: Carrying a defibrillator

CTC Forum - On the road - 1 September 2014 - 9:28am
Psamathe wrote:eileithyia wrote:Best to be aware that most shopping centres / town centre have a debrillator and hope you not too much in the middle of nowhere... but there is only so much you can do.
Am I right in thinking that the emergency services can direct you to the nearest one ? 'cos whilst there might be one in the nearby shopping mall, things might have developed by the time you've been round all the shops asking all the weekend staff who have to check ...

Ian

Not a lot a help during our average club rides out in the sticks! Might be useful for more urban folk.

Re: Carrying a defibrillator

CTC Forum - On the road - 1 September 2014 - 9:26am
eileithyia wrote:Defribillator only of any use in an arrest and then only for certain heart arythmias, the device talks through whether it is shockable or unshockable rhythm.

Better to know how to do effective CPR, 30:2ratio always more effective to do chest compressions adequate than ineffective breathing.. there is always some O2 in the blood and it is better to keep it circulating.

When I saw someone collapse at a cycle event, it was a cylinder of 02 I needed not a debrillator and would have been far more effective than a defribillator... I seriously do not think anyone would allow me to carry 02 around with me.. nor would I want the weight.

Best to be aware that most shopping centres / town centre have a debrillator and hope you not too much in the middle of nowhere... but there is only so much you can do.

Sorry but I disagree.

CPR and defibrillators do different jobs. CPR primarily supports the circulation whilst defibrillators primarily restore rhythm. There's a place for both and neither negates the usefulness of the other. It is wrong to say that it is "better" to know effective CPR. If our friend had gone into cardiac arrest, his chances of survival would have been greatly increased by the availability of a defibrillator even in the presence of effective CPR.

Now I know you can't really prepare for all eventualities, but given how the weight of defibrillators have dropped so much and how they've become automated, perhaps it's not too unreasonable to consider carrying one at physical group activities undertaken by not so young folk?

Just a thought.

Re: Carrying a defibrillator

CTC Forum - On the road - 1 September 2014 - 9:25am
Again, similarly to the carrying additional tags etc on a helmet in case you die at the side of the road in the wilderness, what are the chances of someone having a heart attack or stop breathing whilst on a cycle ride, less than those banging their heads and having life threatening injuries.
To even consider taking a defib around is just a nonsense IMO, sorry but it's all getting a bit stupid..why not have your own ambulance following the group rides just to make sure it'll save 'just one life'.. in fact, better yet, whilst you walk down to the shops or up the stairs to bed

Re: Carrying a defibrillator

CTC Forum - On the road - 1 September 2014 - 9:21am
At my workplace, the jobsworth of an H&S manager deemed that we had to have a defibrillator on the premises, notwithstanding that no-one among the workforce was believed to be at imminent risk of a cardiac arrest (or so I hope!). In his wisdom he decided that the best place to lodge this piece of kit was in the canteen, in one of the cupboards. This evinced many moans from the rest of us, since we were not allowed to put our cups etc. in the same cupboard, and there was a shortage of space already. Also I have no idea whether anyone was specifically trained on how or when to use the defib. There are first-aiders, who've done the standard training with St Johns Ambulance, would they have the know-how?

It seems to me, that taking eileithyia on the payroll with her expertise, would have been far more effective than any number of defibs!

Re: Carrying a defibrillator

CTC Forum - On the road - 1 September 2014 - 9:18am
eileithyia wrote:Best to be aware that most shopping centres / town centre have a debrillator and hope you not too much in the middle of nowhere... but there is only so much you can do.
Am I right in thinking that the emergency services can direct you to the nearest one ? 'cos whilst there might be one in the nearby shopping mall, things might have developed by the time you've been round all the shops asking all the weekend staff who have to check ...

Ian

Re: Lon Las Cymru on starting on Sat 6.9.14, campsite sugges

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 1 September 2014 - 8:46am
On the dates that you have chosen, I would start up in the North.

There will be 9,500 police (many of them toting guns) enforcing large exclusion zones in Cardiff and Newport, odds on they will block stretches of the NCN route as cyclists are even more insignificant than the rest of the general population.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... rs-7697281

I would hate your memories of Wales to be this disgusting image as a Police state, dancing to the tune of the USA security mania.

Slightly off route, this place was super cheap (£3 for cycle camper and £18 for B&B just five years ago).

http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/sites/revie ... revid=4409

There is lots in the forum on this subject but unfortunately the key words are only 3 letters long and the search function is used to four letter words.
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