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Avon & Somerset introduce near miss reporting

CTC Forum - On the road - 12 July 2015 - 6:03pm
I just saw this on the web site Stolen Bristol Bikes
If you cycle on the roads regularly, chances are you'll have experienced a near miss, such as a very close pass from a driver, someone pulling out from a junction without looking, or even verbal abuse and intimidation.

Now Bristol police have introduced a system for cyclists to report incidents that don't involve a collision or injury. It's hoped that this can contribute to road safety and build up a picture of where incidents are happening most frequently. The information gathered in this was has several uses - for example, it could help identify problems with road design.
https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/advice/vehicles-and-roads/cycling/report-a-cycling-near-miss/

not sure how useful this is going to be as they state at the outset that they will not be investigating motorists but building up "useful" data - like 99% of people who drive a Range Rover Evoque are *******'s

Re: woman eating ceral while driving

CTC Forum - On the road - 12 July 2015 - 5:59pm
Flinders wrote:I see what you mean. I didn't realise you were including other road users as well as those in cars. I take your point: large 4x4s are very dangerous for pedestrians, for two reasons, one is they are badly designed for pedestrian safety to start with, and the other is that they make drivers feel so safe and separate from the plebs that it turns some of them into selfish, dangerous morons who ignore any laws they fell like ignoring.
The answer is in the first case to make people wear seatbelts but also enforce all the other road laws as well, and in the case of 4x4s, force better design standards, and also enforce all other laws.

Enforcement of traffic law is an ideal very far from being realised, and I am not sure that it ever can be done. In any case, I don't think you can make people safer than they want to be.

Re: car hire v train prices

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 12 July 2015 - 5:56pm
axel_knutt wrote:So you don't need a printer? Do they give you a PIN number to type into the machine or something? Is there any hassle with machines not working, or not recognising the booking? .
You get a booking reference, put your card in, put the reference in, get tickets. You can nominate the station you collect from, doesn't have to be the departure one. I've just collected tickets at the Derby Station for a train from Penzance next month. If you book more than a few days in advance you can also have them posted, though I think it costs a couple of quid.
I use the train at least once a week and have done for more than a year, always booked on line in advance (And saved a fortune, big savings even on local journeys) not yet had or heard of a problem.

Re: woman eating ceral while driving

CTC Forum - On the road - 12 July 2015 - 5:50pm
Flinders wrote:
I see what you mean. I didn't realise you were including other road users as well as those in cars. I take your point: large 4x4s are very dangerous for pedestrians, for two reasons, one is they are badly designed for pedestrian safety to start with, and the other is that they make drivers feel so safe and separate from the plebs that it turns some of them into selfish, dangerous morons who ignore any laws they fell like ignoring.
The answer is in the first case to make people wear seatbelts but also enforce all the other road laws as well, and in the case of 4x4s, force better design standards, and also enforce all other laws.

Not just large 4x4's(and SUV's) but potentially anyone driving a motor vehicle on UK roads who realise they can get away,literally with murder.
When there's no one to enforce or uphold the law or penalties harsh enough to dissuade people from taking the chance of getting away with whatever laws they choose to ignore,the roads become a free for all.
I witness such behaviour on a regular basis and it's getting worse IME.
Policing and the judicial system in the UK has gone to the dogs and is practically non existent .

Re: 10 days in August. Where should I go?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 12 July 2015 - 5:36pm
Britanny Ferries from Portsmouth or Plymouth to Santander and then along the coast or a nice little detour into the Picos de Europa? The ferry company even have a suggested itinery on the site if I remember correctly. Lots of campsites on the coast and enough to plan a route in the Picos. I've always found that they will squeeze a solo cyclist in somewhere even when they are 'full' Lovely place - you may well have some rain but it is perfectly tolerable as rain goes ie not too cold.
or ferry to Normandy/Brittany?
Have a good time.

Re: Choosing bike for African tour and beyond

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 12 July 2015 - 5:31pm
nowt to do with m, take a look at this

Specialized Hardrock Sport - 18" Commuter/Tourer

in the for-sale section on here.

steel mtb tourer with lots of good bits and new bits, should do the job. £150

Re: New Dawes 26"

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 12 July 2015 - 5:21pm
http://www.fahrradmanufaktur.de/katalog ... uct_id=668

Great value as well taking into account euro exchange rate.

Seem to remember looking at their bikes a while ago and they were aluminium.

10 speed of course!

But I suppose since it's flat bar that could be sorted by changing the right hand shifter.

And why have they gone for Magura HS11 hydraulic rim brakes?

I have a bike with them and they are excellent but on an expedition bike?

Still looks like my best hope is for Dawes to reconfigure that bike of theirs.

Re: woman eating ceral while driving

CTC Forum - On the road - 12 July 2015 - 5:20pm
Mike Sales wrote:Flinders wrote:axel_knutt wrote:Seatbelts are a good example of the converse: a counterproductive law that got introduced against all the evidence just because it was popular.

I'm not sure I 'get' that- what was counterproductive about it?

The seat belt law did not affect the death rate in cars, but the number of cyclists and pedestrians killed and injured increased.

http://www.john-adams.co.uk/category/seat-belts/

The evidence from states which already had a seat belt law was concealed. See Adams's website also.

I see what you mean. I didn't realise you were including other road users as well as those in cars. I take your point: large 4x4s are very dangerous for pedestrians, for two reasons, one is they are badly designed for pedestrian safety to start with, and the other is that they make drivers feel so safe and separate from the plebs that it turns some of them into selfish, dangerous morons who ignore any laws they fell like ignoring.
The answer is in the first case to make people wear seatbelts but also enforce all the other road laws as well, and in the case of 4x4s, force better design standards, and also enforce all other laws.

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

CTC Forum - On the road - 12 July 2015 - 5:14pm
Pete Owens wrote:Flinders wrote:I'm female, and I don't go up the inside of trucks,

And neither have you been killed by one
[quote]

But I could easily have been left hooked by one, as I have been overtaken by trucks more times than I can possibly remember, so what is your point?

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

CTC Forum - On the road - 12 July 2015 - 5:12pm
Pete Owens wrote:Flinders wrote:Okay, for those who think the stats may reflect women being more likely to go up the inside of vehicles in general, why is it one particular type of HGV that is over-represented? Do women, for some strange reason, only go up on the inside of tipper trucks? Or does that sort of truck have worse arrangements for mirrors?

There are certainly design features of construction vehicles that are likely to make them more likely to crush people. They are higher with bigger heavier wheels so there is a greater chance of being dragged under and run over, rather than being pushed over to the side.
http://lcc.org.uk/articles/lcc-challenges-construction-industry-to-adopt-its-safer-urban-lorry-to-reduce-lorry-cyclist-deaths

However, I'm not sure that a particular type of HGV is that grossly overrepresented when you allow for exposure. The figures I have seen compare the overall milage of different types of truck - typically trucks will do most of their milage on motorways between distribution depots away from town centres so will rarely encounter cyclists. London is a vibrant rapidly growing city with a lot of cyclists and a lot of building work going on so if you are a cyclist in London and encounter a truck it is more likely to be a construction vehicle than say a livestock transport vehicle, and vice-versa if you are riding on a country lane.
I'm female, and I don't go up the inside of trucks,

And neither have you been killed by one
but I have seen men doing it. Trucks also overtake me, sometimes close to/on junctions, however far over I am. Do they never overtake men or something? Do all men, or even most men, take the centre of the lane? I honestly doubt it.

A greater tendency for females to do X doesn't mean that ALL females do X while NO males ever do - or even the majority of females do X.
If say 1% of male cyclists regularly undertook left turning trucks and 3% of females then that would be sufficient to account for the difference in the casualty rate.
There is something else going on here, and we need to know what it is. Speculation has gone on long enough, we need hard evidence.
While most of the discussion on this thread is indeed speculation (mostly based on stereotypes), the tendencey for women to overtake on the wrong side is base on evidence:
See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22931179
Bicyclist fatalities involving heavy goods vehicles: gender differences in risk perception, behavioral choices, and training.
Frings D1, Rose A, Ridley AM.

Abstract
OBJECTIVES:
Females are typically involved in fewer collisions when pedal cycling than males. However, female cyclists appear to be overrepresented in the number of fatal collisions involving heavy goods vehicles (HGVs). These collisions often involve cyclists passing HGVs on the side furthest from the HGV driver (nearside). It is hypothesized that this pattern of fatalities may be partly due to differences in how males and females perceive the risk associated with various cycling maneuvers. It is also hypothesized that this difference may be overcome with advanced training.

METHODS:4,596 UK cyclists completed an online questionnaire in which they reported their level of cycle training and rated the risk they perceived to be associated with various cycling maneuvers, the likelihood that they would engage in them, and history of collision involvement.

RESULTS: Females perceived a slightly greater level of risk to be associated with cycling. However, males differentiated between the risks involved in nearside and offside overtaking to a greater extent than females. Risk perception was significantly correlated with the reported likelihood that participants would engage in risky maneuvers such as overtaking on the nearside and also with past collision prevalence. Advanced cycling training was correlated with higher levels of perceived risk associated with overtaking on the nearside; however, basic cycle training was not.

CONCLUSIONS: Cyclists who do not correctly differentiate between the risks associated with nearside and offside overtaking may be more at risk of being involved in HGV-related collisions. Advanced cycling training is linked to more accurate risk perception. To reduce fatalities, public awareness campaigns should focus on the increased risk of nearside overtaking and encourage cyclists to take advanced training.

Two things strike me about that post.

One is that an online questionnaire is by definition not a random sample, just for starters, and some of the conclusions are dodgy to say the least.

The other is that we are talking about actual accidents where someone was hurt or killed, so we need hard evidence of what happened in those specific cases before we can say what the causes may be, even a better conducted piece of research on general everyday self-reported behavior has very little to contribute. It's perfectly possible that the general behavior of every cyclist actually was deviated from in all the cases, some of them, or none of them.

I think thirdcrank's earlier post which included the suggestion that the stats themselves may even be misleading is the most thoughtful post so far, and raises a number of things that 'could be followed up with profit', as they say.

Re: Cycling from Paddington to Hackney this Saturday

CTC Forum - On the road - 12 July 2015 - 5:12pm
Safely negotiated and without incident
Took suggested back-route and modified it to join Pentonville Rd with the intention of turning left at The Angel. However, did not recognise The Angel and ended up at Old Street and then going up the A10.

The return route the next day was most interesting because of the two peds who had a death wish and stepped off the kerb in front of me; one when the crossing light was against them and the other too engrossed in a vitally important phone call. I love to see their look of pure terror when I bellow "NO!" at them. However, I'll never travel up Oxford Street again, it's all stop-n-start.

Re: Summer Tour to the Netherlands

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 12 July 2015 - 5:11pm
I probably will only book camp sites for the 1st and last nights. The rest I'll "wing it". Is that an OK plan?

Summer Tour to the Netherlands

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 12 July 2015 - 5:10pm
Hello all. I've finally booked dates and ferry tickets. I have got a few questions:

1. I depart from Harwich at 0900 and as I live in Somerset I'm planning to drive to East Anglia and park my truck up somewhere the night before and sleep in the back or at the ferry terminal. Is it still OK to kip in the ferry carpark or buildings? I'll then drive off and park my truck somewhere safe for the 10-12 days. Any ideas as to where? The long term car park is £8.60 per day!

2. I arrive into Holland at about 1715 the same day. I'm planning to camp nearby for one night before heading up north along the coast. Any recommendations?

Many thanks.....b

Re: New Dawes 26"

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 12 July 2015 - 5:00pm
bretonbikes wrote:Just to revive this and to say thanks...

After your post I got in touch with VSF and now have 10 of their 700c hybrids in our day-hire fleet (still wouldn't use 700c for our cyclecamping holidays) - I have to say that in 25 years I've never seen better assembled and finished bikes. They arrived on time (after 2 1/2 years I'm still waiting for Orbit to fulfill an order for BB Specials!) - there are also no corners cut though the bikes (50s) are the bottom of their range - even the Allen bolts are top quality. I'd recommend anyone looking for a quality bike to check out their website - with the current Euro rate they are bargains.

I've just looked at them, what great value at under £400 at current exchange rates. I can see why you have specced those.

Re: Collision with another bicycle

CTC Forum - On the road - 12 July 2015 - 4:47pm
I had a similar situation once, though on the other side. I had a wheel wrecked due to collision with pedestrian who ran out (literally) into the road. I was not going fast. The wheel was far from new - it was probably a £70 wheel originally but a court would take off depreciation, probably at rather a high rate. For example, a bike thief was apprehended (rare case) and my friend was awarded by the court only a third of the value of the new bike in compensation for the stolen bike, reckoning that was the secondhand value of a bike a few years old. I decided it was just a waste of time trying to enforce payment of a small amount of money, on someone who had probably provided me a false contact anyway. The fact he was exceedingly uncooperative and unwilling to accept responsibility at the scene suggested it just wasn't worth it. Maybe your collider feel the same when he has had time to think about it. At the end of the day, since enforcement is impractical over such small sums, it is really down to the good will of the other party.

10 days in August. Where should I go?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 12 July 2015 - 4:01pm
I have 10-14 days available in August for a solo bike tour. I'm a bit of a novice - have only done short Way of the Roses and Coast & Castles mini-tours in the past.

I'd prefer to avoid having to dismantle and reassemble the bike for aeroplane or Eurostar.

I'd quite like some sunshine.

I'm open to the idea of camping.

I speak some French and a few words of Spanish.

Bike is a rather battered Ridgeback Voyage.

Any suggestions would be very welcome!

Re: car hire v train prices

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 12 July 2015 - 3:19pm
mjr wrote:booking online and collect tickets from the machine at the departure station, but tyreon had expressed unwillingness to buy online, so that leaves the walk up fares... but can you book bikes on like that?

So you don't need a printer? Do they give you a PIN number to type into the machine or something? Is there any hassle with machines not working, or not recognising the booking? I've always travelled walk-up because I rarely know in advance when I'm going, I've got the bike on OK, but I had a few arguments on occasion.

I'm itching to hire a car at the moment, but I daren't because the trade seems to be rife with scams these days. I also have an issue with head and leg room too, so I don't relish the idea of being fobbed off with an "equivalent" model when I collect it.

Re: Courteous Drivers

CTC Forum - On the road - 12 July 2015 - 3:16pm
Bicycler- good post

Re: Fat Bikes

CTC Forum - MTB - 12 July 2015 - 2:34pm
A good blog. I like his quote, "Don't forget that fat tyres slow you down...In a good way."

I'm guilty in that most things to me in life end up being a race which has taken it's toll in all sorts of ways. I am enjoying learning to slow up........b

Re: Santander to Biarritz

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 12 July 2015 - 2:28pm
Hi Paul,

It's been very useful reading this thread. I'd really appreciate some more info on the route you did. Five of us are doing it next month (Santander - Biarritz), and on your account it sounds like we should think carefully about how we want to cover the Spanish section to avoid busy roads and make the most of the route.

Any advice much appreciated. Do you have any experience of the camping choice/options along the route?

Many thanks,
Rupert
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