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Re: Is it time for radicalism?

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 November 2014 - 3:36pm
al_yrpal wrote:Yes it is, but unfortunately the British public isn't yet ready to support it.
But no one is even attempting to educate them to a disaster unfolding before their eyes.

Theres a lot more persuading to be done. The good news is that in the last few years many more people are riding bikes for pleasure and some of them will be adding their voices to ours. The way forward is evolution, not revolution, which will only alienate those that have to be persuaded.

Al
Only when persuasion has any effect can it be of any use.
It seems we've been trying that particular tactic for more years than I care to remember and it's wet lettuce approach isn't working or if it is,it's having very little effect.
The kind of radicalism I'm meaning isn't revolution of the violent kind,more of a peaceful disruption of the satus quo for the betterment of the whole not just cyclists,though cyclists would benefit as a result.
As it is,no one's gaining as traffic levels and journey times increase on an overloaded road system,whilst at the same time frustration and stress levels rack up,leading increasingly to pretty scary manoeuvres by some.
Along with an almost complete lack of traffic policing,you have a recipe for potential increasing disaster.
Recent history teaches us that building more roads only alleviates the problem for a very short time,which becomes shorter as time goes by as more people use cars as their main mode of transport.
Yet our politrickians(of the five year democratic(sic)cycle)continue with the same stupid,short term thought pattern,which anyone with a grain of sense who takes a small amount of time to think it through can see things can't continue as they are.
We can't even maintain the present road network to a high enough standard as it is,let alone building new ones that we won't be able to maintain in the future!
When do we stop the lunacy,take stock,and think outside the box(private one on wheels)?

In a traffic sense(sense being the operative word),as a nation are simply not getting there and we'll not be getting there even more slowly until we see the folly of the unfettered and universal use of the private motor.

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 November 2014 - 3:35pm
Edwards wrote:Bicycler wrote:If something is worth doing it's worth doing well. If their wording can trip up people who know the law no doubt it can confuse those who don't. I also think it would be best for them not to offer sloppy legal advice for free if they want to attract paying clients.

They managed to catch out a few cyclists who think they know the law about ASL. First you must cross the stop line to get to the Advanced stop line.
The exact legal entry point was not asked for.

This quiz highlights why we are better off with proper legal representation when things end up in court. In law the exact wording is every thing an it is easy o trip people up.

The cycle lane does not have the stop line, you don't cross it, you take a lane in whuch it does not exist.

Re: Using cycle paths

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 November 2014 - 3:30pm
Yep.
One of my "shouters" lives locally though I don't know him particularly. He overtook me and gesticulated vigorously at me to use the path. I caught him up in the village, just as he was reversing into his drive.

I stopped and shouted back at him!
"Don't you EVER tell me where I should or should not ride my bike! Do YOU have a bike?"
Sheepishly, "No".
"Well, stop telling ME what to do, get yourself a bike and YOU ride on that stupid path!"
"But our taxes have paid for it!"
"Well, YOU ride on it then!"

I rode away, and since then he's never so much as looked at me again.


This is the path heading uphill.
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=callin ... 12,45,,0,0

Re: Using cycle paths

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 November 2014 - 3:18pm
This is the problem with approving cycle paths on the grounds that they are better than nothing for unconfident cyclists isn't it? It puts the rest of us in the unenviable position of trying to explain why we don't use something which appears to have been built for our benefit but in fact never considered our needs.

Personally I think usage is a good test of cycle path quality. Cyclists will use whatever they feel is most convenient and safest. If cyclists don't use a piece of infrastructure, you need to question that infrastructure not the cyclists.

Re: Is it time for radicalism?

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 November 2014 - 2:51pm
Yes it is, but unfortunately the British public isn't yet ready to support it. Theres a lot more persuading to be done. The good news is that in the last few years many more people are riding bikes for pleasure and some of them will be adding their voices to ours. The way forward is evolution, not revolution, which will only alienate those that have to be persuaded.


Al

Re: Using cycle paths

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 November 2014 - 2:38pm
I tend not to use cycle paths as I don't trust that I can on and off one safely where I want to and I can also get from one end to other on one without getting blocked by anti-cycling barriers/a post/ a narrow place/ etc/ etc.
My trouble is I ride something that's as non-standard as you can get, a recumbent trike towing a trailer behind it so it's 3 meters long and almost a meter wide.
The main time I do use them is going uphill when I'm going sub 5 mph, but I need to be able to get on it on the way up as I drop below 10 mph and leave it at the top safely as I pick up speed. so unless I ridden past the stretch and I know I can do that, I'll not use it unless I'm wanting to go slow.

Re: Skateboarders v cyclists..amazing footage

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 November 2014 - 2:25pm
If it's being touted as a display of skateboarders blowing away cyclists one has to say that the cyclists weren't exactly trying very hard. Noticed very little pedalling and the cyclists taking the long way around the bends to let the skateboarders have the racing line.

On the other hand one has to admire the bottle and skill of the boarders...even if it had little regard for the wellbeing of other road users - one slip and they could have taken a few of the cyclists out on the bends.

Is it time for radicalism?

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 November 2014 - 1:12pm
The facility fanatics thread has reached a point where posters are beginning to mention the perceived(if not real) dangers of cycling and the possiblity that potential cyclists are put off by it.
The use of helmets and hi-viz clothing as some kind of solution to that perception is,frankly bonkers as I'm sure most would agree.
These barriers need to be seen for what they are,a pandering to bad driving and victim blaming,and cycling accepted as a normal activity,not just some sport related,sub cultural pastime practiced by ultra fit specimens with Strava accounts chasing times in a fantasy frenzy,or poor people who can't afford a car .
IMHO until that happens cycling in the UK cannot be seen as a more rational,normal and pleasurable means of getting about.
The key to this is curbing motor traffic speed and parking(for all but the infirm)and instilling into the driving populous their responsibility's to other road users and more particularly vulnerable roads,and that the roads aren't theirs but belong to everyone,whether they use them or not and whom they must respect.
The erroneous belief by some road users, that cyclists are a 'problem' who don't pay to use the roads ie;VED,insurance,number plates,and usual tripe,needs to be once and for all overtly dismissed and discredited publicly by the authorities at national and local level,until the message has sunk in to the heads of the more moronic occupants we share these islands with.
And that cycling is a solution to a car centric 'problem',of course this needs some bold politricks and politrickians not noted for their truth,upstanding or realism perhaps the point is somewhat moot,unless they're frightened into doing something positive,their failure of re-election to the gravy train,er sorry house of commons,being their worst fear .Apologies to any good MP's reading.
The reluctance of UK government to accept that we're reaching gridlock and that building more roads isn't the answer to a long standing problem beggers belief IMHO.
Head in the sand attitudes being only overshadowed by the head own rectum approach,to a problem that will only worsen until a completely fresh outlook is taken on transport and is a quality of life issue that needs addressing,soon.
Daily public transport in an overcrowded country is not being met sufficiently unless you're prepared for a high cost personal vehicle or unreliable,jammed-in-like-cattle public transport,that groans under the burden whilst charging exorbitant fees for the privilege.
The bicycle isn't the whole answer,but can part of it,who's spin off of fresh air and exercise leading to better health,something sadly lacking in many peoples lives,imprisoned by a lack of such advantages.
If public transport were attractive enough ie;clean,reliable,convenient and affordable,as roads clear of private vehicles space would then be clear for more cyclists to use the roads and where necessary cyclepaths and streets and pavements not clogged up with unused vehicles of an evening,not to mention the freeing up of city centre car park space wher people could actually live
AFAICS two things stand in the way of this utopia(sic)the motoring ego,and the massaging of it by those making huge profits from it,including the government.
It seems to me that in tailwaggingdogland,anyone wishing to buck the trend of private car use,on poking his/her head above the parapet has to learn to duck with increasing agility and should that agility fail them occasionally,they'll be victim blamed in the classic UK tradition for not having the good sense to be 'normal'.As motoring crime is increasingly looked upon by the powers that be,as an acceptable part of everyday life which is overshadowed by the huge 'benefits'(read profits)made by both government and the motor/petrochemical industries.
Not to mention what we'd do with all the cars should utopia be attained
I don't have any other answers outside of what some would see as radical though to me seem sane,one thing's for sure,life on UK roads for anyone using them is becoming an increasingly stressful,unpleasant,and increasingly unreliable*,daily experience,and unless something fairly radical is done will only worsen

The roads are dangerous.... .... but only when used

* a week last Friday,due to a truck turning over shedding it's load(not an unknown phenomena,as are cars shunting one another causing the same mayhem) on a motorway I was nowhere near,it took me 4+ hours to drive 20miles home which included 1hour to drive the last 2miles.This was slightly uncommon but 2hour delays are a regular occurence for motorway users in the conurbations of this green and pleasant land.

Re: Using cycle paths

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 November 2014 - 1:07pm
Mick F wrote:Yes, I've noticed an increase too.

There's one particular stretch of the A390 near here that has a shared use path, but I never use it. It's on a long hill, so going down I'm doing 30mph or more so using a path would be foolhardy. Coming back up is when I get told to use it, and I've become tired of it, so take a different route.

I've been riding that road for 30years - probably longer than most of the "shouters" have been driving!

That sounds bad. Never been driven off a route yet but it could be in the post. Twice I was yelled at leaving Weymouth last week. Once by an irate lorry driver and once by a motorist. I can see how they see it. We're holding them up while ignoring (to them) a privileged route. The motorist was waving his arms and jabbing his finger so much I thought he was referring to a problem with the bike. Only when I stopped to check did I see the path behind one of those flower displays along the promenade.

I also got told off for pavement cycling but owned up and got off.

I'll always use a path if (a) I can see the start and you dont always or (b) it isnt obviously a bad surface.

Re: Using cycle paths

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 November 2014 - 12:58pm
Not noticed, but the shouts are very rare anyway.

As an aside, and a reflection on "need" for cycle paths - 2 years ago I visited the area where I started club riding and spent the week riding with the people I rode with 45 years ago. I was advised that if I used a particular road I should use the cyclepath because local campaigners had made such a fuss about getting one put in that locals get very aggressive if you are on the road. The path in question was from a trading estate along a busy and quite narrow road. How good the surface etc might be I do not know because I put in a detour to avoid finding out. So, campaigners make a fuss which makes road riding more unpleasant. Thanks chaps!

Re: Using cycle paths

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 November 2014 - 12:57pm
jezer wrote:No, we are part of normal traffic and should be on the road. A good repost would be 'get on the motorway'

Re: Using cycle paths

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 November 2014 - 12:47pm
ukdodger wrote:.... we are not obliged to use cycle paths are we?

Certainly not, and in the very unlikely event of a shouter being prepared to have a calm discussion, you can tell them that the roads are free at the point of delivery for us all to use. And it'd be good to point out that drivers do not have any priority over cyclists, and have no authority to tell any body to use a cycle path.

Re: Using cycle paths

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 November 2014 - 12:36pm
Yes, I've noticed an increase too.

There's one particular stretch of the A390 near here that has a shared use path, but I never use it. It's on a long hill, so going down I'm doing 30mph or more so using a path would be foolhardy. Coming back up is when I get told to use it, and I've become tired of it, so take a different route.

I've been riding that road for 30years - probably longer than most of the "shouters" have been driving!

Re: Using cycle paths

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 November 2014 - 12:16pm
No, we are part of normal traffic and should be on the road. A good repost would be 'get on the motorway'

Re: Gibraltar - Perpignan (France) through Sierra Nevada

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 23 November 2014 - 12:15pm
Whilst you're in Gib, make sure you ride up the Rock.

I did it first with a 3sp SA Raleigh, then some years later on my Mercian. I found it difficult coming back down as my arms were aching from braking so hard. Up the hills - some of them 1in3 - was hard enough but worth it.

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 November 2014 - 12:11pm
Bicycler wrote: ......... Personally I tend to view a pavement as the physically constructed path next to the carriageway regardless of whether bicycles are permitted on it.Exactly.

Definition of "pavement".Screen shot 2014-11-23 at 12.10.40.png

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 November 2014 - 11:56am
rfryer wrote:While you're quoting legislation, can you quote the bit that defines an equivalance between the term "pavement" and "footway alongside the carriageway set apart for the use of pedestrians"?

QED
Road Traffic Act 1988, Section 38 (7) recognises the Highway Code in civil and criminal proceedings. Rule 64 of the Highway Code establishes the equivalence between "pavement" and "footway alongside the carriageway set apart for the use of pedestrians".

Bicycler wrote:Can I have the legislation permitting cyclists to cross normal stop lines on red lights to access ASLs and the requirement for pedal reflectors to be retro-fitted to bicycles built before 1985?

Not from me .

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 November 2014 - 11:20am
TonyR wrote:As a smug 100%er I'm afraid they are right. Any conversion to a shared use facility is through the Cycle Tracks legislation that changes its legal status from a pavement or "footway alongside the carriageway set apart for the use of pedestrians" on which it is illegal to ride a bicycle to a cycle track on which it is legal. It's not by a local bylaw waiver of national legislation that makes it illegal to cycle on the pavement.

Again (being equally smug) I posted above that the legislation prohibiting cycling on them uses the words " any footpath or causeway by the side of any road made or set apart for the use or accommodation of foot passengers". It is far from clear that "footpath or causeway" and "footway" mean exactly the same thing as "pavement". Personally I tend to view a pavement as the physically constructed path next to the carriageway regardless of whether bicycles are permitted on it. A proper segregated cycle path separated from the pedestrian path would be different but a bit of paint and blue signs doesn't stop me from thinking it a pavement. Many other people will think the same, so to include that statement without clarification is confusing. I would welcome the clarification Richard seeks.

BTW, you are wrong about the Cycle Tracks Act which is used for footpaths away from roads. The relevant legislation for those on roads is the Highways Act 1980. S. 66(4) allows the removal of the pedestrian "footway" (no mention of "pavement") and S.65(1) allows the creation of a cycle track.

Ditto about the other ones which people are complaining are wrong

Can I have the legislation permitting cyclists to cross normal stop lines on red lights to access ASLs and the requirement for pedal reflectors to be retro-fitted to bicycles built before 1985?

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 November 2014 - 10:58am
TonyR wrote:As a smug 100%er I'm afraid they are right. Any conversion to a shared use facility is through the Cycle Tracks legislation that changes its legal status from a pavement or "footway alongside the carriageway set apart for the use of pedestrians" on which it is illegal to ride a bicycle to a cycle track on which it is legal. It's not by a local bylaw waiver of national legislation that makes it illegal to cycle on the pavement.

Ditto about the other ones which people are complaining are wrong.
While you're quoting legislation, can you quote the bit that defines an equivalance between the term "pavement" and "footway alongside the carriageway set apart for the use of pedestrians"?

Thanks!

Re: Diabetic Feet on Tour

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 23 November 2014 - 10:54am
Hi there

If you are passing Aldi pop in and buy some cycling overshoes. They will keep your feet warmer and hopefully DRIER which is the main thing. Good lick with your ride.
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