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Re: Biker's death filmed - horrific.

CTC Forum - On the road - 8 September 2014 - 3:32am
mark a. wrote:Most of the replies agree that the rider was going too fast, and that was a contributing factor, so we all agree with you on that.

Note that no-one else felt the need to call him an idiot, a muppet or have been glad that there's "one less selfish idiot" - as if his death is a just dessert.
So what? I'm an individual not afraid to speak my mind, I can't say the same for other people..I frankly don't care if anyone doesn't feel they can say what they really want to but are afraid to because others might fingerpoint.. If you think I'm being insensitive..hard lines..this person was selfish beyond belief without a care for anyone on the road including himself and more so his family.
That he then rode at that stupid speed one handed ignoring all the hazards makes him a muppet, an idiot.

That doesn't make me 'wrong' or inappropriate or whatever other descriptive given to me by Ellieb, I will however Ellieb make the point that I never at any point said I was glad that this person died..that makes you the one in the wrong here for suggesting that!! that's akin to me saying I thought they deserved to die.. quite frankly that is beyond a joke and trying to make out I said that is far more inappropriate than anything I've said to describe the actions of the motorcyclist.
However the facts are borne out that he is one less person to mess about with other people's lives!

Re: Biker's death filmed - horrific.

CTC Forum - On the road - 8 September 2014 - 1:59am
Bicycler wrote:I think the car driver was still to 'blame' for this one if that word is even appropriate in such a scenario. I don't think the car would have cleared the junction had the motorcycle been doing 60mph but obviously if he had been doing half his speed and considered the possibility of the car turning then he may have been able to avoid the collision. I always say that 'blame' is fine for macho roadside posturing over scratched car paint and insurance claims but where people are liable to be injured or killed the question should be whether each individual had taken every reasonable action to ensure the collision did not occur (having priority is not sufficient). IMO both failed in this respect.

Try looking at this from the drivers pespective:

Stop the BBC video at 48 seconds. I don't think it would be unreasonable for a driver to decide at that point that they could make a right turn. The truck is over 200m away and will take about 9 seconds to reach the junction. Did you see the white van behind the truck? That is where the motorcycle would have been on the day. Now roll the video forward to 53s - if the white van was a 100mph motorcycle this would be the time of the crash.

Remember it takes time from the decision to move and the vehicle starting to move - and once you are moving it takes time to initiate a stop - so while it looks from the video as if the driver simply pulls out at the very last minute, the initiation of that manoevre will have been taking place very much earlier before the biker was even in view.

Re: Biker's death filmed - horrific.

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 September 2014 - 11:53pm
Tony f I agree with you 100 per cent. This motorcyclist's behaviour is suicidal and riding in this manner had predictable consequences. It's lucky that he didn't take anyone else out. It's tragedy but a wholly preventable one and the blame is all down to him. I think he was selfish for putting his family through this, but I have no sympathy for him. I see this sort of behaviour from motorcyclists all too often. Especially on sunday runs round here, they speed excessively, overtake in all sorts of dangerous places. Speed kills.

Re: Biker's death filmed - horrific.

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 September 2014 - 11:20pm
While I can understand Norfolk Constabulary's reasons for releasing the video, and I think that it is incredibly brave of the mother to allow the footage to be used, I think the video misses the mark somewhat.

It provides more 'shock' value than any road safety video I've seen, which might serve to make people think momentarily, but what does it achieve? The video only seems to help people viewing it apportion blame to one side or the other, or both, rather than giving messages or advice about what road users can do to avoid such situations. If people had entrenched views about the safety of motorcyclists or var drivers before watching this, those views will only become further entrenched (as shown by the bile-filled post above).

For motorcyclists, I guess the message is obviously to ride with an appropriate speed (amongst other things), but what about car drivers? Look twice? Move your head when looking for vehicles to avoid your natural blind spot?

I don't see any of these messages coming through in the video so I feel it merely has a momentary shock factor which is soon forgotten but doesn't really give the viewer much to go away with to think about what *they* as a road user could do better, rather than looking at a video and talking about what others are doing wrong.

Re: Ditching my Hybrid for a full Spec Tourer

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 7 September 2014 - 10:44pm
I have a koga miyata randonneur.the cheaper version of what mark Beaumont went round the world on.I have had it about 5*years now.done lots of touring.camping and I love it.was much better than the dawes ultra galaxy then.and the new ultra I saw yesterday has gone downhill.excuse the pun.pedals were awful.no lights.cheap looking taped handlebars.look into it.good luck.

Re: Another A38 Accident

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 September 2014 - 10:24pm
TonyR wrote:BeeKeeper wrote:Sadly, this death sends it's own message. Stay off this road.

And the deaths of cyclists on minor roads and in towns? What message does that send? Stay off the roads altogether?

Sad as these incidents are, they are extremely rare. There are many other things we do in daily life that are far more likely to kill you. The danger is we start to engender (and probably already have) a Fear of Roads for what is an extremely safe activity. The real issues with riding on these sorts of roads is how threatening they can feel, not how threatening they are.
I think you are missing my point. Cycling accidents can happen anywhere but my instinct is cycling on a road like the A38 is significantly more dangerous than other roads. It is hard to prove as there is no data relating cycle miles to accidents for this bit of road I know about but as someone who drives about twice or three times a week past the spot where this poor guy was killed I wince every time I see a cyclist. The speed and density of traffic leaves no space for cyclists - who as a motorist you often get the first warning about by the brake lights of vehicles ahead coming on. It is a two lane motorway by any other name.
This is a subjective view but nothing would ever make me cycle on this stretch of road. My view might be influenced by the fact I nearly killed a cyclist a few years ago on the A38. I was in my car, it was pouring with rain, I slowed down and followed a truck as my exit approached. When the slip road began on my left, designated by the dotted white line, I started moving left. Suddenly, through the spray thrown up by the truck I saw a cyclist pedalling straight on. Fortunately I am fairly manic about not tailgating so was far enough behind the truck ahead to see the cyclist in time for me to cut back onto the road, miss the cyclist and my turn off. A sobering experience.
The cyclist should have turned up the slip road and crossed it at right angles further up but there are no signs at this junction suggesting this and it was his right to stay on the A38. I suspect he doesn't know how close he came to death that evening.

Re: Biker's death filmed - horrific.

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 September 2014 - 10:21pm
Most of the replies agree that the rider was going too fast, and that was a contributing factor, so we all agree with you on that.

Note that no-one else felt the need to call him an idiot, a muppet or have been glad that there's "one less selfish idiot" - as if his death is a just dessert.

Re: Biker's death filmed - horrific.

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 September 2014 - 10:02pm
Ellieb wrote:Given that the family of the biker who died must have known that it would reveal poor riding from their son, but chose to release the video in order to allow others to learn, I think the tone of your comments are really disrespectful and inappropriate.
Sorry, how is that so? Not one single thing I said is untrue, just because some like to sidle around the fact the person whom died was a massive contributor to his own death by riding DANGEROUSLY AND RECKLESSLY at a massively inappropriate speed you think I should follow suit?

Having had a very near miss in recent times where a motorcyclist cut the bend at 80+mph and have had many many high speed close passes from idiots such as the guy who died I've got ZERO sympathy for him, he had no respect for himself or other road users..you think I'm going to bow to some sort of unspoken rule about not speaking ill of the dead .
I have sympathy for his family, it is they whom are unduly punished here..but to brush this off in the way you are suggesting by not mentioning how much of a threat to life this idiot clearly was is in itself disrespectful and inappropriate.
I rightfully as a road user want to share my thoughts and concerns with regard the shocking behaviour and actions of the motorcyclist, that it ultimately cost him his life is niether here nor there to me, he was an idiot and he IS one less on the road to put mine and others life's at risk!

Yes of course there is an element that the car driver as at fault too..but IMO the majority was the person who died.
That the sentence was on the very lesser end of the scale shows what the powers that be thought about this..despite the district judge Peter Veits saying he did not accept the argument in mitigation that the motorcyclist was doing 97mph! and said it was Austin’s actions which caused the accident. cute little statement that with the dismissing of any mitigation places all of the burden onto the car driver which is absolute houcm!

I'd say the driver of the car partly through remorse/distress was given little option but to plead guilty to Death by careless..they've had no hesitation in pleading guilty.
Having a conscience gets you no-where..it's an easy prosecution without really looking into whom was the main person at fault!

That's my opinion and if you think it is disrespectful/inaccurate etc that's up to you..

Re: Two Together Rail Card

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 7 September 2014 - 10:00pm
stu1102 wrote:just got my Two Together Rail Card as my wife and I are fed up with driving everywhere with bikes in the car



Excellent. I just did a five train one way journey using my Senior rail card. All went well. It really wouldn't take much to make bike facilities on trains very good indeed (measuring a bike might help for starters!).

Re: Biker's death filmed - horrific.

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 September 2014 - 9:52pm
Tonyf33 wrote:At least 2 seconds from (the video) which the motorcyclist could see the driver already starting to turn in (@4 sec), his reactions were micturate poor, his speed ridiculously too fast for the conditions..and at 6 secs the impact.We are talking fractions of a seconds that made the Renault driver think he had enough time..

The Renault driver never didn't think he had enough time because by their own admission they never saw the bike (or the following car the bike had just overtaken).
There's a huge difference between underestimating someones speed and simply not looking. The driver was prosecuted because they should have looked and should have seen. 100mph is fast but it's not faster than light and a motorcycle with (no doubt) its headlights on would have been visible from some distance away.

I'm not even sure what your point about reactions times is, 100mph is blatantly stupid (which was the point of releasing the video) but there was never any chance of him avoiding the car nor even of scrubbing off much in the way of speed.

Re: Biker's death filmed - horrific.

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 September 2014 - 9:26pm
Given that the family of the biker who died must have known that it would reveal poor riding from their son, but chose to release the video in order to allow others to learn, I think the tone of your comments are really disrespectful and inappropriate.

Re: Biker's death filmed - horrific.

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 September 2014 - 8:48pm
One maybe able to attribute some blame to the car driver, however, the speed of the idiot whom died was by far the greatest contributor to their demise. Sympathy for the family but people need to redirect their negative feelings away from the car driver.(I know he was convicted of death by careless)

In that situation it would be pretty difficult for your averagely competent driver to acknowledge any vehicle travelling at massively excessive speed on a country road like that. The difference between a crash + death and not is less than 2 seconds.
At least 2 seconds from (the video) which the motorcyclist could see the driver already starting to turn in (@4 sec), his reactions were micturate poor, his speed ridiculously too fast for the conditions..and at 6 secs the impact.We are talking fractions of a seconds that made the Renault driver think he had enough time..

The rider didn't give himself any chance whatsoever, what if it had being an obstacle in the road, a deer/sheep/cow/horse breaking out through a fence..or god forbid a cyclist avoiding a pothole..then what!!!
The motorcyclist should have scrubbed off his speed on approach to the junction, he failed to ackowledge the hazards. Going massively too fast for his own skill level that he couldn't even maneouvre more than a few inches. At 30 mph slower he probably would have being able to swerve to the left and still bring it back..but we'll never know.

The muppet is even riding one handed prior to the crash so it was I'm going to ride at speed and 'Stuff you' to everyone else..thank god he didn't take anyone with him!!
one less selfish idiot on the road as far as I'm concerned.

Re: Action on Dangerous Drivers - Worth the Effort

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 September 2014 - 8:11pm
I often wonder if the offending driver is ever REALLY fired.
It must be so tempting for the company person to use such a statement as a fob-off to placate the complainant.

The usual response in any organisation is for the insiders to close ranks and ignore or fob-off the outside threat.

How will we ever know if they are REALLY fired ??

Re: Action on Dangerous Drivers - Worth the Effort

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 September 2014 - 8:00pm
I am afraid that I disagree, a driver chooses to make a dangerous manoeuvre of their own accord.


I always complain and detail the driver and vehicle details.

What is funny is that they always lie about what has happened.

At this point send in the video and ask why the company is lying about events

For example, driver puled a left hook and clipped my front wheel. Then explained that i should "Go Away" as I had been holding him up and it was therefore my fault.

Complained and was told that it was definitively my fault as I had undertaken their driver at the junction and I was lucky they were not pursuing damages against me for the scratch on their van.


Then produced the video that showed the driver pulling out into the outside lane, crossing both the inside lane and the cycle path....... e no longer works for the company and the grovelling apology from the company was a miraculous volte face

Re: Biker's death filmed - horrific.

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 September 2014 - 7:59pm
On ride today I stopped at a café and there was a table of motorcyclists all discussing the incident. From what I could hear they were mostly blaming the biker for going too fast which was surprising.

Re: Biker's death filmed - horrific.

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 September 2014 - 7:56pm
You know, I can't help but compare this with that other video of a motorcyclist coming a cropper on the Cat and Fiddle road, that went viral a few months ago. Discussion here. On that one, the biker walked from the scene. He escaped with a total written-off bike, a two-year ban and a hefty fine. He should count himself the luckiest man alive. If he'd been a few inches to the left he'd have T-boned himself against the oncoming car, and that would have been the end of him - and quite likely the innocent car driver too.

I must say that the majority of motorcyclists I see, whether on my bike or in the car, have been reasonably sensible and nowhere near such aggressive speeding - these examples are the exception. Otherwise it would be total anarchy on our roads. Some have argued that the biker in the A47 crash, if he'd been doing 60 (the speed limit), he might have survived. If the impact had been at a closing speed of 60, I'd say not, but it all depends by how much he would have been able to brake before impact. He would have had more time to react of course - and so would the car driver.

No need for a plainer illustration of the stark fact: SPEED KILLS.

Re: Another A38 Accident

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 September 2014 - 7:25pm
jezer wrote:There were certainly plenty of resources to protect the world leaders in Wales. Have you seen the clip of the Stonehenge visit? The motorcade passed near here, but I think the US president went by helicopter, accompanied by two jets.
I make a point of not watching such stuff it has no bearing on reality,their decisions OTOH

Re: Another A38 Accident

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 September 2014 - 7:24pm
MrsHJ wrote:It felt sexist to me. I quite frequently get the red haze rise when either womens issues or cyclists issues are dissed so it did not feel an appropriate comment, sarcasm at best, particularly in the light of a thread about a tragic event.

My apologies MrsHJ if that is how it came over - it was not my intention. My intention was not to diss issues of women's personal safety but to say its absolutely not acceptable to say the solution to them is to stay off the streets. Likewise its not acceptable for cyclist safety to say stay off the roads.

Re: Sheep playing chicken

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 September 2014 - 7:24pm
Now the flaming squirrels are at it!!!. Today descending steeply through woodland a damned squirrel sat in the middle of the (admittedly narrow) road suddenly decides to play chicken. Sheep and squirrels, it's enough to drive you paranoid!!

Re: Another A38 Accident

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 September 2014 - 7:18pm
jezer wrote:....... by helicopter, accompanied by two jets.

That would have been interesting. I would imagine the stall speed of the jets must be pretty close to the maximum speed of the helicopter.
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