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Re: Follow my leader

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 August 2015 - 2:13pm
mjr wrote:I think even if the first one passes OK, those following get progressively worse unless there's a good driver amongst them.
This is my experience too, sadly. Herd mentality means once the leader goes, the rest all will too, getting closer and closer as the road narrows again or oncoming traffic appears.

Re: Gwynedd CC proposal to close Barmouth Bridge to cyclists

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 13 August 2015 - 2:11pm
To everyone except trains, not just cyclists.

Apparently they aren't collecting the 90p crossing charge, which previously covered the £30k per year plus collecting expenses they have to pay Network Rail. Surely it could be rounded up to a quid and coin-operated gate put in, if having gate-keeper has become too difficult. What idiocy.

Re: Gwynedd CC proposal to close Barmouth Bridge to cyclists

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 13 August 2015 - 2:10pm
Also http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-nort ... s-33905836.
Just as we've recovered from the Porthmadog bridge closure.....

Re: Follow my leader

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 August 2015 - 2:07pm
I think even if the first one passes OK, those following get progressively worse unless there's a good driver amongst them.

Re: New overtaking video

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 August 2015 - 1:55pm
That our problem isn't the people who are interested in motoring enough to join a forum about it? That the worst problems are often with people who don't particularly enjoy motoring but see it as a necessity and a right?

Follow my leader

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 August 2015 - 1:27pm
I have a theory that when being overtaken by a stream of cars, the behaviour of the first driver is critical - if he passes slow and wide so will the rest.

Unfortunately the obverse applies.

This Sunday I was followed by a small stream cars on a winding narrow country lane with no safe place to overtake, after about 400m one lost patience and overtook on a blind bend causing the poor oncoming motorist to brake hard and head for the grass verge (much flashing of lights and blaring of horns) - the following drivers saw this debacle then each in succession did the exactly the same thing and each encountered an angry oncoming motorist each of whom had to take similar avoiding action.

Did they each think 'he got away with it, so can I and nuts to the oncoming drivers'?

I try and avoid stereotypes but the three cars were a black BMW X5, a black Porsche 4x4, and a black Audi A6

Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 August 2015 - 12:44pm
I relate this phenomena as the same one that disabled people, or for that matter anyone who looks different gets treated by society.
It's a natural genetically programmed response to reject any member that doesn't fit.
Albino animals often get driven from family groups or herds & rarely find a mate.
Most people are intelligent enough to realise this 'instinct' isn't important any more & react accordingly.
A few 'Neanderthals' are closer to their genes & react in ways that sometimes intimidates or even endangers more vulnerable road users.
It certainly isn't only a London thing.
Yesterday I filtered past holiday traffic at a set of local lights.
A van that I had passed at said, passed me later at a safe distance but cut in aggressively when immediately in front of me.
IMHO he thought I had no right to move up through the congestion even though it was safe to do so, & caused no inconvenience to any other road user.
The cars caused the congestion not me.
But because we stand out & haven't got two tonnes of steel around us we are a very easy target.

Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 August 2015 - 12:32pm
We all detest pavement riders and redlight jumpers. There is a very small minority of morons who do detest cyclists. Others who are worried about how to pass cyclists safely. Then there are the ladies who drive fast on narrow roads almost straight at you, they are just ignorant. But, the majority of motorists are courteous and careful. Its too sweeping to say the public detests cyclists. Insert 'some' and its true

Al

Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 August 2015 - 12:11pm
have to say the Boy racers round here are actually one of the best groups, they pass consistently, they seem to give decent room and so on. This is through town though, dont usually meet them on the open road.

Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 August 2015 - 12:00pm
The 1960s and 1970s wrote cycling out of everyday life. Where it was pedestrianised, you walked. The rest of the time you drove. If there is a "modal shift" to cycling, it's bound to unsettle people: bikes on shared paths, bikes forcing an overtake where none was previously required. It's certainly got people thinking, albeit not always in the most intelligent ways. Cycling and cyclists are challenging: how you drive, how much you weigh, what you can realistically expect to encounter on a journey. So yes, it's bound to engender some negative feelings but that's normal IMV when change is happening. A good sign is the sheer quantity of views out there, negative or not.

Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 August 2015 - 11:47am
A significant miserable minority of people detest everyone who is different from them. It's the usual ingroup/outgroup mentality and is pretty much what makes the Daily Mail sell so many copies. I'm not sure that cycling gets more opprobrium than any other minority activity, nor that we should waste any time trying to disprove them. Better to concentrate on getting good infrastructure so that their descendants want to cycle too!

Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 August 2015 - 11:38am
I think a significant miserable minority of motorists do detest cyclists.

It is nothing to do with us breaking traffic rules as they don't seem to get irate, toot their horns, shake their fists and complain to the Daily Mail when they see other motorists flouting rules.

I think it is just too much for them to see us getting through traffic quickly and cheaply while enjoying ourselves and keeping fit too.

It brings home the utter wretchedness and frustration of their daily driving experiences, and that causes anger and bitterness.

Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 August 2015 - 10:32am
Jughead wrote:Yet, we seem to be attracting lots of negative press. Us cyclists need a charm offensive, What would you do?
Not ride on the roads (or pavements). If I absolutely had to do so I'd ride as close to the kerb as possible, be willing to dismount the moment I detect that a motor vehicle is approaching from behind and may be momentarily delayed. I'd also insist upon paying Road Tax and insurance "like everyone else". If questioned about my odd cycling habit I'd apologise profusely and say that I'm still saving up for a car.

Here's me thinking I'm saving the planet and not being a burden on the NHS by cycling and keeping fit.
Just the kind of "smugness" the public have come to expect from cyclists. I'd avoid sentences like that at all costs.

In all seriousness it's hard to say what can be done seeing as much of the common objections are based upon misconception (egs. road taxes and gutter cycling), prejudicial stereotypes (you smug, arrogant, lefty, eco-warrior, lycra lout), or misbehaviour of a proportion of cyclists (pavement cycling and RLJing). I think this will persist as long as we are a group of outsiders. We need cycling to be seen as more of an everyday activity for the masses.

Re: Cycle across the Himalayas - tell me what I need to know

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 13 August 2015 - 10:29am
I would recommend you read the sources I suggest, maybe also look for some more yourself such as on crazyguyonabike, and make up your mind what would be best for you.

Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 August 2015 - 10:28am
pwa wrote:I suspect the anti-cyclist sentiment (so far as it exists) is largely a London phenomenon. Here in the Vale of Glamorgan I am not conscious of it on a day to day basis..
.
London's better than many provincial cities. Cycling's becoming almost "normal" there, especially for commuters. Less than 20 miles East of the Vale of Glamorgan is Cardiff, where you really do feel at the bottom of the pecking order.

Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 August 2015 - 10:24am
pwa wrote:On the rare occasion that I have had negative comments about cyclists, the criticisms have been legitimate complaints (red light jumping, cycling on the pavement, not signalling, etc) but expressed as a stereotype to include those of us who do not exhibit those faults.
I think it is arguable whether these are in fact legitimate concerns. I see them rather as self-confirmatory observations people make to justify their pre-existing attitude.

I read a paper the other day which had some data on red light jumping, suggesting about a 50% higher rate of red light jumping by cars (per driver per month) than by cyclists. The difference is that the kind of red light jumping that cars do - going through a few seconds after it has turned red - is overlooked as being "within social norms" - a high proportion of people do it so it isn't stigmatised. Most red light jumping by cyclists is not actually antisocial or dangerous, and it is officially tolerated in some places - Paris is the latest to bring in official disapplication of many red lights for cyclists - it simply isn't necessary for them to respect the lights in many cases, so long as they give way.

Many more pedestrians are killed or seriously injured by cars driving on the footway than by cyclists. It isn't common for cars to try and travel along the footway, because it is simply impractical for them to do so. But their occasional trespassing on the footway is far more damaging than cyclists, whose presence is often officially tolerated with shared used routes, which could practically be extended to many more without any problem.

I don't have any data on cars not signalling, but anecdotally I observe it is widespread. Since left hooks are a common form of cyclist casualty, it seems to me to be much more serious when they don't signal. It is not always practical for cyclists to signal as they may need to brake or retain in control due to impediments and surface imperfections. So people cannot rely on signals being provided by cyclists, and in any case it doesn't really matter that much.

Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 August 2015 - 10:18am
I think it is unfair to lump all the negative drivers together as Top Gear fans or boy racers just like it is unfair to say all cyclists ride on pavements injuring kids and jumping red lights. They are both very unfair. I used to really like Top Gear and I always rode bikes for leisure. I think you may find that a lot of keen drivers and fans of motoring shows on TV are also known to ride bikes for leisure too. Are we all self hating because we watch that programme?

Stereotypes never help any negative situation and TBH I think as a cycling forum it is time we should stop carrying on these stereotypes. What I mean is stop demonising other road users and perhaps take the moral high ground in this stereotyping.

As far as detesting cyclists I have never seen that where I live. The worst I encounter is a few close passes, which I assume to be due to the car driver not realizing how it feels to be passed by a car at that distance. Purely ignorance not maliciousness. I hear a few horns going but often it is as a hello to some pedestrian they know (I see the wave back from the guy on the pavement). Once I got an aggressive small white van driver who drove right up to my wheel and honked his horn in what I considered an aggressive manner. I knew someone was coming up behind me but not how close he was and that horn made me jump out of my skin and I actually briefly lost control and the bike swerved out a bit until I caught myself. I nearly came off and under his wheel. A fellow cyclist was behind the van and saw it all. When we got stopped a traffic lights for a roadworks he said "what an idiot?!! What was his problem?" I remember it vividly because I ran my actions through and I gave him no reason to do that.

As I said up here I have no indication there is any level of hatred or detestation towards cyclists. That one incident was purely a complete nutter who had a bad day. Never saw him again. Lancaster was a cycling demonstration town in the first 5 to get that status (actually a city since the 60s I believe). As such there is a more favourable attitude to cyclists I think. There are certainly enough of us around. Plus I think there is a lot of cycling going on as commuting and leisure. I would bet that most drivers round here also owned a bike and have been known to use it for more than propping up the garage wall. There are reasonable cycling facilities too I think. For me Cycling to work is as quick as driving, and all available alternative methods such as public transport with walking at each end.

Re: New overtaking video

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 August 2015 - 10:17am
Bonefishblues wrote:OK, remember "robust"!

You'll see a couple of obvious trolls in action, too.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... ists+video
Just had a browse through that forum thread. Surprisingly encouraging, as had been said. Interesting that a thread on this topic on a motoring forum should be much more intelligent and positive, on the whole, than the comments posted at the foot of a similar article in a general newspaper would be. Not quite sure what that tells us.

Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 August 2015 - 9:49am
On the rare occasion that I have had negative comments about cyclists, the criticisms have been legitimate complaints (red light jumping, cycling on the pavement, not signalling, etc) but expressed as a stereotype to include those of us who do not exhibit those faults.
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