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Re: Tipper crash in Bath

CTC Forum - On the road - 15 February 2015 - 10:56pm
bigjim wrote:No it's not! That looks like the start of a long steep stretch of road. Imagine you have 40 ton behind you. The more you travel downhill the more that load will push you. You will have brake fade. So now you are going too fast and cannot downshift because you cannot get the engine revs, road speed to match. Now you are out of control!
Truckdrivers should be aware of this caravanners less so. The French are correct. Steep roads in the Uk used to have emergency run offs for this.
But with an artic truck or a caravan, indeed any sort of trailer, there is no drive to the trailer. Hence there cannot be any engine braking to its wheels. If you rely entirely on engine braking, you are in effect applying resistive force to the front part of the vehicle only, in front of the coupling to the trailer. This can't be ideal!

I have never driven this kind of vehicle, but I would have to assume that in modern trucks etc. there are anti-fade measures on the brakes, which I also assume to act on all wheels equally.

I wonder whether another reason for the change in emphasis away from engine braking, is because so many cars are front-wheel drive nowadays? Once again, my old banger (first car) was indisputably RWD, as were the majority of cars in those days (Minis and the like excepted).

Incidentally it's not a steep stretch of road in my Streetview grab - it's a motorway with a gradient of just 5% (1 in 20). A steep hill on a motorway would be an alarming prospect, to say the least!

Re: How to convince others cycle touring is safe?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 15 February 2015 - 10:36pm
Life is a risky business, and you’ll only be totally safe when you’re dead and buried. We are actually the safest people who have ever lived, but our fear grows to fill the space available. As others have said, it’s irrational, and you probably can’t stop them worrying; but it’s absolutely not a reason to revise your plans.
If it’s any consolation to them, I’m planning to set off on the same route as you – Leeds-Hull-Rotterdam-and-up-the-Rhine, probably a couple of weeks earlier. And at 67, I’m definitely old enough to know better, and much less robust to cope with any problems that may arise. To be honest, the bit I’m nervous about is getting from here to Hull! Sure there are risks – just as there are to staying at home.
Keep reminding them that thousands of people are doing things like this – and worse – and coming home alive and fulfilled.
Keep reassuring them that cautious managed risk is quite different from foolhardy recklessness.
Promise to stay in touch.
Keep the promise.
And have a great ride.

Re: Is touring becoming a thing of the past?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 15 February 2015 - 10:33pm
pwa wrote: But there are more trendy bikes (Genesis Croix de Fer) that pretend to be "cyclo-cross" but are in fact very close to traditional tourer.

Yep, I bought a Genesis Croix de Fer frameset and built it up to my spec, specifically as a cycle-camping-tourer with disk brakes. I can't imagine why anyone would want to cyclo-cross on it?

Re: Is there a Round Britain route info thread?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 15 February 2015 - 10:17pm
It's also worth reading One Man and His Bike by Mike Carter, which was also about 5000 miles - either way, a great read!

Re: How to convince others cycle touring is safe?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 15 February 2015 - 9:50pm
When my daughters left on their round the world gap year it was very tough seeing them go but it would have been completely wrong to have held them back. What might help is to set your parents up with Facetime or Skype and then video call them from Internet Cafe's on a regular basis to tell them about your adventures and how well its going. Even when the girls were on the other side of the world it was like they were at home when they were on screen chatting away. After a while your parents maybe get to learn that nothing terrible is happening and that you are not that far away.

If they're young enough to still travel you could even arrange for them to fly out and meet you for a few days in some of the major cities/sights on route. They can then also bring you a change of clothing for the changing seasons/weather and take back any souvenirs you've accumulated to make room for more.

Re: How to convince others cycle touring is safe?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 15 February 2015 - 9:35pm
My mother must have sat worrying sometimes when I was gone. I never really discussed things with her. I just told her where I was going & what I was doing. Sometimes when we were teenagers, my brother and I would just pack stuff up on our bikes and leave our mother a note that we were going camping for a few days, and off we'd go. I don't remember what we told my mother, but I think we were fairly vague about where we'd been and how far we'd gone.

Re: Tipper crash in Bath

CTC Forum - On the road - 15 February 2015 - 9:32pm
IME engine braking doesn't work as well on modern cars as it does on older ones. In town near me is quite a long, quite steep (?10%) hill, the top approached from a junction. Going down it in our 1993 Volvo 240 estate - a heavy car - I can keep to the 30 limit just by staying in 3rd gear and coasting, no brakes required.

A few years ago, though, I drove down it in my son's Ford Focus. The speedometer wasn't working but I stayed in 3rd gear as usual. Half-way down I thought it felt rather fast and applied the brakes....as I did so a policeman with a speed gun jumped out . I was really cross with myself and in a sweat for a fortnight, but they must have given me the benefit of the doubt, and I retained my unblemished record.

A couple of driving instructors I know confirmed that modern cars don't behave the same as older ones (duh!)

Re: Tipper crash in Bath

CTC Forum - On the road - 15 February 2015 - 9:31pm
Somehow, I think not. However, for a car towing a caravan, or an artic with a trailer, using brakes in this situation is obviously a lot safer than engine braking: I'll grant you that.
No it's not! That looks like the start of a long steep stretch of road. Imagine you have 40 ton behind you. The more you travel downhill the more that load will push you. You will have brake fade. So now you are going too fast and cannot downshift because you cannot get the engine revs, road speed to match. Now you are out of control!
Truckdrivers should be aware of this caravanners less so. The French are correct. Steep roads in the Uk used to have emergency run offs for this.

Re: How to convince others cycle touring is safe?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 15 February 2015 - 9:24pm
I was quite brutally, cruel and honest with my parents and mocking of their concerns. Which as I am now the parent, I feel some what guilty about as I am having the same fears for my children. Becoming a parent does rather transform how you look at risk, the first time I went out on my motorbike after my first child was born, it dawned on me that it actually mattered (for the first time) whether or not I came back alive.

So there is something to be said for non-disclosure with parents, half truths and even outright lies. It makes their lives easier.

Re: Cycling the Italian lakes

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 15 February 2015 - 9:18pm
Via Beneco down from Pieve - goes round a full 360 then through a natural cave.

I was going to dig out some photos but some guy videoed the whole thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru-UziQkhz8 - I'd suggest going down rather than up...

Re: How to convince others cycle touring is safe?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 15 February 2015 - 9:14pm
ndxcc wrote:Currently my main issue is trying to convince others (especially over protective parents - only child, but I am 30 years old!) that this tour is safe.
Is it safe? Compared to some things, not to others. Can I convince them? Unlikely, given that you're over thirty and still trying to.

Do research. Make plans. Set dates. Go for it. Other people's confidence in you is based in you're past successes not your future plans.

Re: Is there a Round Britain route info thread?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 15 February 2015 - 9:14pm
I think that you have to make your own definition of what "around the coast" means.

Peter Mann did it in 5,000 miles this guy did 11,000 miles on his scooter.

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Britain- ... story.html

There is some flexibility due to a sort of fractal nature of coastal roads. Three of my friends did it on motorbikes some time ago and this was something they had to spend a lot of time planning and deciding about. They had quite a complicated set of rules.

As an example they wanted to always take the closest road to the coast but if that road was not continuous (just a spur) it could be left out. Then they had to decide if that still applied if it had a loop at the end of it that you could only reach along the spur road, they decided such roads did not have to be done unless they were quite major. So a degree of pragmatism was coming into things.
Which could mean in real life you define the route to suit how much time and effort you are willing to give to the task. I have seen some much shorter motorised attempts where they take the nearest A road as being the criteria, a rather severely diluted version to my mind but uses much less petrol.

Re: Tipper crash in Bath

CTC Forum - On the road - 15 February 2015 - 8:52pm
Regarding the engine braking issue, how do you explain this sign? It's on a French Autoroute which I'm very familiar with, we often drive along this stretch and there are several signs like this one, giving out the message in German/Spanish as well as English/French. In my car I don't really need to bother since the slope is very gentle, but does it indicate that the French traffic authorities are out of touch with the rest of the world?

Somehow, I think not. However, for a car towing a caravan, or an artic with a trailer, using brakes in this situation is obviously a lot safer than engine braking: I'll grant you that.

Is there a Round Britain route info thread?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 15 February 2015 - 8:24pm
I've used the search facility but there is not much that remains on the web, particularly the stuff from the proposed charity route in 2010, The Great Tour.

I have an interest in whether this route has been officially mapped out or is it more of a DIY route? I know that Peter Mann famously circumnavigated the coast but if there is no "official" route then is it just up to the individual to get on and do it the way you would want to do it?

If that is so, what advice would tourers out there give to somebody who wanted to cycle around the coast?

Any maps, route guides, etc?

Re: How to convince others cycle touring is safe?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 15 February 2015 - 8:14pm
Just show your parents some of the hundreds of youtube clips showing aggressive behaviour and assaults on cyclists in the UK, and then demonstrate the complete lack of any from abroad!

Re: Cyclist defence fund Michael Mason

CTC Forum - On the road - 15 February 2015 - 8:11pm
They're allegedly too busy doing other stuff you see, like allegely finding every single purchaser of the french comic that caused a stir last month and allegedly stopping every cyclist in London that isn't wearing hi-vis or a helmet and allegely giving them 'advice'..oh hang on...

Re: Is touring becoming a thing of the past?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 15 February 2015 - 8:11pm
I bought my dream tourer from Condor Cycles in London and they told me that the "made to measure" route was the way most touring bikes were sold. Getting fitted and adding the spec's you want is the way forward if you've got a bob or two. I got mine on the 'cycle to work scheme' and paid the excess price: I wasn't the only one doing that. So, in response to the OP, I think that there's still a demand for tourers but it's becoming a 'specialist' market, possibly.

Re: Cycling the Italian lakes

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 15 February 2015 - 8:08pm
Thanks for your good advice, but I know that one tunnel on the West side of lake Iseo is over over a mile long, with curves and a two lane road. I would hate to be committed to ride through,if it was busy.

Re: Lovely Ride Today

CTC Forum - On the road - 15 February 2015 - 8:03pm
Thats great! Its wonderful hearing good experiences...unlike the numpty on a roadbike today who decided to stop in the middle of blackheath hill junction , almost being roadkill courtesy of a car pulling hard on the brakes at 40. Still not sure how he survived, but i ordered roadkill from the takeaway to celebrate his good fortune
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