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Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 August 2015 - 5:15pm
Bicycler wrote:The direction this thread has taken makes me wonder how you can ever give crime prevention advice without somebody using that to transfer blame from perpetrator to victim.

Do you lock your doors at night? It's mitigating someone else's possible action. We can blame the burglar while still saying it isn't wise to make it easy for him. As for the cyclist in the video. He had a choice of riding in the doorzone and risking a dooring or the minor hassle of shoulder checking, signalling, and moving out. He chose the easy option and rolled the dice with the doorzone. He lost.

Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 August 2015 - 5:11pm
Postboxer wrote:And where do you draw the line, would it be safer to use a different route? Are they then partly to blame for riding down that road when there may be a safer alternative? Would it be safer to work from home, have your shopping delivered etc etc.

I consider the safety of different routes when choosing which one to take. Why wouldn't you? If I'm driving and I've got a choice of two routes taking similar time I'll take the longer motorway route because motorways are safer and more relaxing to drive than urban streets with frequent junctions and shared with children, dogs, cyclists etc..

Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 August 2015 - 4:58pm
well, quite... Most of the UK population appreciate the hazards of cycling on the road and they understand the mistakes that drivers may make. They choose to mitigate the consequences of such a mistake by not cycling on the roads. If we ever want this to change we need a change to the attitude that treats drivers' dangerous behaviour as mere innocent mistakes to be expected and accommodated by other road users.

The direction this thread has taken makes me wonder how you can ever give crime prevention advice without somebody using that to transfer blame from perpetrator to victim.

Re: Ideas for week long continental tour?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 7 August 2015 - 3:59pm
Another option I guess is take the car on the Dover/Calais ferry or Dover/dunquerke and drive somewhere and do a circular tour. Don't think I could afford to take the car on the hull to Rotterdam ferry.

Ideas for week long continental tour?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 7 August 2015 - 3:56pm
I'm looking for suggestions please.

The main criteria is to be flatish. Ive got a recumbent trike and it's not good on the hills....neither am I actually!

I live close to Hull so had been thinking of getting a ferry from there to Rotterdam or maybe Zebrugge. But a ferry from Portsmouth to St Malo is a possibility.

Id thought of maybe cycling the Rhine Route from Rotterdam??? But was worried that that end of the Rhine is a bit industrial/not very pretty? It looks nicer in parts of Germany?

Is it possible to get a train easily from Rotterdam a bit further inland/towards Germany and find somewhere more picturesque to cycle? But I don't want to waste too much time travelling and im worried about getting a recumbent trike on a train (it does fold up a bit but still very big and hard to manoeuvre in and out of trains when folded).

Ive never been to Bruges and that looks nice for a visit. Don't really want to go to Amsterdam as im worried about all the bike thefts. Don't really want the North sea coast route either as I can imagine if it's windy it wouldn't be very pleasant.

Any ideas?

Re: No longer fashionable to say Hello?

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 August 2015 - 3:32pm
mercalia wrote:the only ones who dont are the lycra crowd I find

I wear Lycra and I'm always friendly. And I find lycra cylists are too. However, I don't expect someone who is clearly training, going flat out with their head down to respond.
Overall, I'd estimate that I've had blank-out responses from about the same absolute number of straight bar potterers as people in lycra, and I see a lot more people in lycra.

If I was commuting in heavy traffic I wouldn't expect people to respond, I'd be too busy dealing with the traffic myself at times.

Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 August 2015 - 3:31pm
And where do you draw the line, would it be safer to use a different route? Are they then partly to blame for riding down that road when there may be a safer alternative? Would it be safer to work from home, have your shopping delivered etc etc.

Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 August 2015 - 3:22pm
irc wrote:You can either believe that if you do nothing wrong you are OK or you can believe that other people are always going to make mistakes and being a safe driver or cyclist involves anticipating what hazards there are and doing what you can to mitigate the consequences of a mistake.

But that is very different from blaming the cyclist for getting hit by a door.

You might as well blame me for letting myself be hidden by a large vehicle, or obscured by the setting sun. Those are also hazards that can be anticipated.

Maybe the cyclist was anticipating more hazard form the taxi driver wanting to overtake behind him than from a parked car?

Re: car hire v train prices

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 7 August 2015 - 2:58pm
TonyR wrote:In Great Britain, 22 million households (84%) had Internet access in 2014, up from 57% in 2006.
Fixed broadband Internet connections were used by 91% of households.

How can more households use fixed internet connections than have internet access?
I suspect that it is 91% of the 22 million/84% (so about 76% of total households) - a small (but generally diminishing) number of places use a fixed wireless system or even a satellite link in particularly remote locations.

Rick.

Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 August 2015 - 2:54pm
aspiringcyclist wrote:And this is where the victim blaming comes in. Cyclists avoiding the door zone is mitigation for other people's behaviour. The same way avoiding certain areas at night is and looking even if the pelican crossing light is green.

And these are all good things. If you take needless risks and it goes wrong then you are partly to blame. We mitigate for other people all the time. The Highway Code is full of advice to mitigate other people's behaviour.

look well ahead for obstructions in the road, such as drains, pot-holes and parked vehicles so that you do not have to swerve suddenly to avoid them. Leave plenty of room when passing parked vehicles and watch out for doors being opened

All cyclists should consider the benefits of undertaking cycle training

You can either believe that if you do nothing wrong you are OK or you can believe that other people are always going to make mistakes and being a safe driver or cyclist involves anticipating what hazards there are and doing what you can to mitigate the consequences of a mistake.

Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 August 2015 - 1:55pm
irc wrote:AlaninWales wrote:[The facts in this case include that the (professionally trained) Traffic Engineers have decided to put a cycle lane in which cyclists are expected to cycle. The car occupant should have seen the cycle lane and realised that cyclists would be using it. The cyclist will (as we are) have been subject to abuse for not using provided facilities. Unless inculcated in the arcane mysteries of 'which infrastructure to avoid using' the cyclist will naturally ride in the provided lane - perhaps even believing that he must do so.

According to the comments in the Evening Standard this wasn't a cycle lane. It is a bus lane active a certain times. There is a blue advisory cycle lane within the bus lane. The cyclist wasn't in the cycle lane though he was in the bus lane and chose not to leave it to safely overtake parked cars. His choice, his fault.

If the cyclist believes he must use the bus/cycle lane even when unsafe he is sadly lacking in basic knowledge. It is common in my area for cyclists to choose to avoid some "facilities". I'm sure London cyclists are in general equally competent. If he didn't recognise it was unsafe he has poor hazard perception. I bet the next time he rides it he'll be further out. It's better to learn from other people's mistakes than to make them all yourself though.

Of course the driver is also to blame.

And this is where the victim blaming comes in. Cyclists avoiding the door zone is mitigation for other people's behaviour. The same way avoiding certain areas at night is and looking even if the pelican crossing light is green. The driver is solely at fault.

Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 August 2015 - 1:51pm
AlaninWales wrote:[The facts in this case include that the (professionally trained) Traffic Engineers have decided to put a cycle lane in which cyclists are expected to cycle. The car occupant should have seen the cycle lane and realised that cyclists would be using it. The cyclist will (as we are) have been subject to abuse for not using provided facilities. Unless inculcated in the arcane mysteries of 'which infrastructure to avoid using' the cyclist will naturally ride in the provided lane - perhaps even believing that he must do so.

According to the comments in the Evening Standard this wasn't a cycle lane. It is a bus lane active a certain times. There is a blue advisory cycle lane within the bus lane. The cyclist wasn't in the cycle lane though he was in the bus lane and chose not to leave it to safely overtake parked cars. His choice, his fault.

If the cyclist believes he must use the bus/cycle lane even when unsafe he is sadly lacking in basic knowledge. It is common in my area for cyclists to choose to avoid some "facilities". I'm sure London cyclists are in general equally competent. If he didn't recognise it was unsafe he has poor hazard perception. I bet the next time he rides it he'll be further out. It's better to learn from other people's mistakes than to make them all yourself though.

Of course the driver is also to blame.

Re: No longer fashionable to say Hello?

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 August 2015 - 1:48pm
I ride three bikes all on drops ( I have two flat bars but don't ride them much) and I don't tend to say hello, however I do tend to give a brief acknowledgement either as a nod or the the flutter of a wave without taking my hand off the bar. Other blokes on drops (and it is mainly blokes) tend to do the same.

I'm more likely to actually say 'Morning' - or whatever - to someone I've had to make eye contact with, a jogger jogging towards me, a dog walker who's pulled their dog out of the road as I approach, a horse rider who I yelled a warning to 100 yards back.

Even then there are people who don't want to be engaged with, I've been cycling to my current place of work for eight years (tho' not every day) and have regularly come across a woman walking her dogs on the road (no pavement). The first few times I saw her I acknowledged her but she didn't only say nothing but affected a distracted air, often looking the other way and she still does that (tho' the dogs always look round!). So for the last seven years or more I've ignored her - it's what she wants, I'm not upset about it.

Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 August 2015 - 12:43pm
irc wrote:Don't be too sure It has been tried. In this example the only reason the cyclist wasn't found to be contributory negligent was that in this particular case fast moving traffic made it unsafe to pull out.

Lord Justice May said that the Claimant, Burrage, could indeed have foreseen that the door would open and had the opportunity to take evasive action but was he wrong not to do so? The Judge found that each case must be decided on its own facts and ruled that Mr Burrage was not at fault as he would have put himself in more danger by moving further in to the carriageway (where vehicles were travelling at speed).

http://www.cyclingaccidentlaw.co.uk/?p=152
The facts in this case include that the (professionally trained) Traffic Engineers have decided to put a cycle lane in which cyclists are expected to cycle. The car occupant should have seen the cycle lane and realised that cyclists would be using it. The cyclist will (as we are) have been subject to abuse for not using provided facilities. Unless inculcated in the arcane mysteries of 'which infrastructure to avoid using' the cyclist will naturally ride in the provided lane - perhaps even believing that he must do so.

Re: What's your top weight saving tip for touring?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 7 August 2015 - 11:32am
Shop at Decathlon for clothing requirements. cheap, lightweight and rolls up nice and small.

Shave your arm pits (I know it sounds a bit opposite to some manly men and I refused to do it for the first month of cycle touring but it was so much better after I got rid) then use a speed stick, it works alot better than any other deoderant and it lasts alot longer (also means you can "shower" with wet wipes easier)

Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 August 2015 - 10:47am
aspiringcyclist wrote:But don't you find it ridiculous that cyclists have to be told not to use the infrastructure that has been built. Imagine if certain roads/lanes were too dangerous to drive on and it was up to drivers to know which ones not to use - and then nothing was done to make those roads safer.

Drivers also need to take account of road conditions - gravel, potholes, obstructions etc. Part of safe driving and cycling. Though I agree dangerous cycle facilities are worse than nothing.


aspiringcyclist wrote:Also, there is no way that a cyclist will have blamed apportioned to them in the event of a dooring. The highway code also states that, when crossing a pelican crossing, pedestrians should: "When a steady green figure shows, check the traffic has stopped then cross with care." However, if someone crossed on green but a driver jumped the light and hit the pedestrian, the pedestrian wouldn't have been partially responsible. One is advice and the other is law.

Don't be too sure It has been tried. In this example the only reason the cyclist wasn't found to be contributory negligent was that in this particular case fast moving traffic made it unsafe to pull out.

Lord Justice May said that the Claimant, Burrage, could indeed have foreseen that the door would open and had the opportunity to take evasive action but was he wrong not to do so? The Judge found that each case must be decided on its own facts and ruled that Mr Burrage was not at fault as he would have put himself in more danger by moving further in to the carriageway (where vehicles were travelling at speed).

http://www.cyclingaccidentlaw.co.uk/?p=152

Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 August 2015 - 10:29am
bovlomov wrote:reohn2 wrote:... but many's the time both whilst driving an cycling I think the vehicle with the hazard lights flashing is indicating to move off because it's nearside indicator is obscured by the vehicle parked behind it,which gives a false impression.
It's a fundamental problem with hazard lights, and I'm surprised it hasn't been tackled by the motor manufacturers. There is simply no way of knowing which of the two functions an indicator is performing. You'd think it wouldn't be beyond them to devise a different pattern (long on/short off, or irregular?) for the hazard mode.
I call them Stupid Lights. Because they are nearly always used stupidly, for example to indicate the driver is about to do something stupid, or in situations where people won't be able to see one of the lights and will misinterpret them. Then there's the sad fact that that plenty of people stop where they shouldn't stop (No Loading At Any Time) and think it's OK, or at least that they'll get away with it, if you turn your stupid lights on. Having a distinctive flash pattern would help with just one of those problems.

Re: No longer fashionable to say Hello?

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 August 2015 - 10:05am
the only ones who dont are the lycra crowd I find

Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 August 2015 - 10:05am
irc wrote:[XAP]Bob wrote:The person opening the door was, I think, getting out of the drivers seat - so I am assuming he is licensed to drive in this country, which should mean a familiarity with the highway code and the laws of the road - which includes checking before you open the door...

The same Highway Code which tells cyclist not to ride close to parked cars and that cycle lanes are optional. The same Highway Code which the RTA 1988 says can be used to apportion blame.
Knowledge of the Highway Code isn't a requirement for cyclists but if you choose not to know the rules or learn to ride safely then expect to be involved in avoidable accidents.

But don't you find it ridiculous that cyclists have to be told not to use the infrastructure that has been built. Imagine if certain roads/lanes were too dangerous to drive on and it was up to drivers to know which ones not to use - and then nothing was done to make those roads safer.

Also, there is no way that a cyclist will have blamed apportioned to them in the event of a dooring. The highway code also states that, when crossing a pelican crossing, pedestrians should: "When a steady green figure shows, check the traffic has stopped then cross with care." However, if someone crossed on green but a driver jumped the light and hit the pedestrian, the pedestrian wouldn't have been partially responsible. One is advice and the other is law.

Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

CTC Forum - On the road - 7 August 2015 - 9:57am
[XAP]Bob wrote:The person opening the door was, I think, getting out of the drivers seat - so I am assuming he is licensed to drive in this country, which should mean a familiarity with the highway code and the laws of the road - which includes checking before you open the door...

The same Highway Code which tells cyclist not to ride close to parked cars and that cycle lanes are optional. The same Highway Code which the RTA 1988 says can be used to apportion blame.
Knowledge of the Highway Code isn't a requirement for cyclists but if you choose not to know the rules or learn to ride safely then expect to be involved in avoidable accidents.
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