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Re: The Calm Before The Storm

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 November 2014 - 10:40am
Vantage here is the law you were looking for http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Wil ... section/78
which creates an offence where:
...the driver of any... carriage... meeting any other waggon, cart, or other carriage, or horses, mules, or other beasts of burthen, shall not keep his... carriage... on the left or near side of the road; or if any person shall in any manner wilfully prevent any other person from passing him, or any... carriage... under his care, upon such highway, or by negligence or misbehaviour prevent, hinder, or interrupt the free passage of any person, waggon, cart, or other carriage or horses, mules, or other beasts of burthen, on any highway, or shall not keep his... carriage... on the left or near side of the road, for the purpose of allowing such passage...

I don't think we can take the keep left requirement to mean never overtake anything so I don't think it applies to (motor)cyclists overtaking queues of traffic. As above, I think the "in any manner wilfully prevent... from passing him" bit applies to deliberate and needless obstruction by cars regardless of them being in "their" lane

Re: The Calm Before The Storm

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 November 2014 - 9:59am
RJS wrote:....... Since going back to motor bikes last year I've been surprised by the amount of car drivers who purposely move to the left for me to filter through, I just hope they don't stray into the cycle lane if there's a cyclist there ......

I find the same when I'm filtering on the right whilst cycling,but don't get lulled into any kind of false confidence in them.
I've also experienced the opposite and very,very,occasionally on the last second or two,deliberately.

Re: The Calm Before The Storm

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 November 2014 - 9:54am
Beardy
Oh, without doubt the Fiat has every right to to drive right upto the white line if they so desire and can't wait to demonstrate it.
And I agree it is a grey area,but when there's no need for it,it's nothing but nastiness,which does seem to be a trait of a significant number UK drivers.
It's their righteousness in such situations that cause unnecessary aggravation and tension,because they are so,so,right and so eager to demonstrate it,it's no more than might is right only in this instance the law is on their side too and don't they just love it!.
What I'm trying to say is that it wouldn't have cost the Fiat driver anything at all to give the motorcyclist room to pass,white line or not, instead of squeezing him in her righteousness.
I see it all the time when cycling and it's a very bad side of UK driving attitude and also one reason I wouldn't trust another road user one bit.
I see each one as a psychopathic lunatic out to do me harm that shouldn't be the healthy option but unfortunately it is.
If we all took a courtesy course UK roads would be a better place for all!

Re: The Calm Before The Storm

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 November 2014 - 9:35am
Fiat driver did nothing wrong, but with a little more awareness might usefully have maintained her line until the bike was past and then taken up her position. Whether she did it consciously or unconsciously, who knows?

Why was a Youtube video made of this, I wonder? (I don't have the benefit of sound at work, so maybe there's something I've missed)

Re: The Calm Before The Storm

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 November 2014 - 9:30am
Legally the car driver does nothing wrong, a bit unfriendly, the motorcyclist seems to think every one should make way for him. Rather than rant and rave he would be better off smiling and giving her a wave, then enjoying the rest of his day. Swearing at her will only encourage her in her ways. Since going back to motor bikes last year I've been surprised by the amount of car drivers who purposely move to the left for me to filter through, I just hope they don't stray into the cycle lane if there's a cyclist there
Cheers, Rob.
P.S. I've shouted and gesticulated may times in the past older now and have found I enjoy my ride far more if I don't get upset, and remember the times when I've been at fault

Re: Anyone not been hit by a car

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 November 2014 - 9:25am
I'm 36, doing maybe 1000 miles a year since my teens, and never been hit by any vehicle, although had a couple of angry exchanges.

For the last couple of years I've done a couple of miles a day across town with my daughter in a child seat. Anecdotaly, drivers do seen to be a bit more patient and careful. The way they should normally behave, of course.

Re: The Calm Before The Storm

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 November 2014 - 9:16am
As somebody who used to ride a motorcycle (often on the wrong side of the line for quite long periods) I do accept that the line is there for a purpose and the Fiat is within their rights to take as much of their side of the road as they like. If we start introducing grey into that the whole system will collapse!

Once you start saying the Fiat can not take up their chosen line because it interferes with any body who is willing to endanger themselves by driving on the wrong side, you will in effect reverse the priorities from those that are stated.

So the Fiat was being a bit of a nasty person by moving to the right but I think that they have every right to do so and that right should be upheld. Especially as we really need it as cyclists who are subject to close passes from oncoming cars that are overtaking and who think we need no more space than 2 foot of gutter.

So the Fiat driver gets to choose where ever she likes on her side of the lines. If this means that it is into his path then possibly he was on dodgy grounds overtaking at that point. I always considered myself on dodgy grounds making such overtakes as a courier.

Re: The Calm Before The Storm

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 November 2014 - 9:00am
It's gridlocked,the driver of the fiat can see they're going nowhere.
The line of cars in front of the Fiat are well to the left of the white line.
There is no reason for the Fiat to come so far out as demonstrated by the much wider Z series BMW already stopped in the jam.
The Argos truck's going nowhere either so I'm not buying it that the Fiat driver is making way allowing it to filter on the left.
It's a selfish power trip blocking manoeuvre by the Fiat driver as she had a yard to spare to her left.
It wouldn't have warranted a F*** you from me,just a shake of the head,but it's bad driving IMHO.
And it hardly matters that the motorcycle is to the right of the white line so long as there's room to overtake safely,there was until the fiat driver attempted to close the door deliberately.

Re: The Calm Before The Storm

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 November 2014 - 8:57am
Very strange vid, don't quite see what the point was. Made himself look a complete tool. Entertaining in a stupid/selfish way. Why does he think he had any right of way at all. Bit like a couple of bike v bus vids I've seen recently where riders abused the drivers for no obvious reason.
Just noticed that the OP says, it's 'how many of us feel'? What, from the bikes point of view? Sorry, no way.

Re: The Calm Before The Storm

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 November 2014 - 8:57am
My first impression was that the motorcyclist was in the wrong and it remains that when you overtake on the other side of the road that the traffic on that side have priority.

Watching it a few times (and the editing doesnt help) I think that I can detect the driver moving over to the line at about the time the motorcyclist comes into her view. A few times when I was in London as a motorcycle courier I experienced this often much more undeniably blatant and deliberate.
I probably swore at them too as their intent deserved it but you will always have something like that prepared for in your decision whether to overtake there or not.
It remains that videos dont give as good a picture as being there in person.

So accepting that the car has priority over the motorcyclist, is it OK to purposefully drive into their path when you see them and close the gap that they were travelling in? As compared to say exerting your priority if wanting to be at the white line because you need to be in that position.
Overtaking where he was that eventuality (deliberate or not) should have been in the motorcyclist's "plan" with an escape route available back to his own side, costing no more than a swear word or two.
Where as a car driver would be able to intimidate any two wheeler into the gutter and carry on.

I did look at a few of his other videos and he does seem to be very self serving in deciding what is right and wrong.

Re: panniers panniers panniers???

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 13 November 2014 - 8:56am
bikepacker wrote:Where some posters get bikepackers are not waterproof from I will never know.
They will let the water in if you come off in a greasy ford, or after hitting a submerged pothole, and leave the bike on its side in the water whilst you inspect your injuries. That's about the only situation.

Re: Anyone not been hit by a car

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 November 2014 - 8:54am
As I think I mentioned in the poll discussion, I've never been hit by a car (yet) but I've ridden into the back of one who pulled away from a stop line too slowly!

If I remember correctly, the poll suggests about a third haven't been hit by cars, which isn't bad given that's over all time.

Re: North Sea route - Rotterdam to Esbjerg

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 13 November 2014 - 8:18am
The website for the Texel-Vlieland crossing is in Dutch but I had a very helpful response in English when I emailed about using the crossing with recumbent trikes.
We decided that it was a no go on our trikes, very disappointing as I was looking forward to that crossing.
We cycled over the Afsluitdijk instead. A lovely sunny day with a tail wind - easy riding, but the biting insects were a pest!

Re: panniers panniers panniers???

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 13 November 2014 - 7:52am
Thanks for the post's and ALAN LORD your bike packer page was vet useful thanks.

Re: The Calm Before The Storm

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 November 2014 - 6:13am
This video made me feel.
What a sense of entitlement that bloke has. Everybody should get out of my way I am doing them a favour.

The last time I came across such a self righteous self centred I am important attitude was a urban warrior saving the planet cyclist.
He is doing me no favours as I do not go to that dreadful place London.

Re: Anyone not been hit by a car

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 November 2014 - 5:29am
Vantage wrote:Madness?
Sitting in a steel cage and held up by lots of other steel cages while your blood pressure rises increasing the risk of heart attack and watching your money going up in smoke (literally) via an exhaust pipe.
I'd rather be on my bike

I know. I have done some research. The reason why I chose cycling is because I want to live by logic not by fear.

Re: North Sea route - Rotterdam to Esbjerg

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 13 November 2014 - 4:45am
Hopping the Dutch Wadden Isles:

Den Helder (mainland) to Texel
- every 1/2 hour;

Texel - Vlieland
- crossing partly by boat, partly by truck.
In high season twice a day, reservation (mail or phone) with bike needed (7 days before), rather expensive (€ 27,- including bike (2014)), but adventurous. Website (only Dutch)

Here a site with a complete overview of al the crossings (just in Dutch)

From every island you can go back to the mainland.
Have fun.

Re: Show your touring bikes !!!!

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 13 November 2014 - 4:29am
My Condor Heritage in China.

Re: panniers panniers panniers???

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 13 November 2014 - 1:19am
Ortieb back roller changed my life about 20 years ago.
Light,simple and compact (no pocket please) easy to fix (2 seconds) and waterproof.
I'm now in Laos and had hard rain for 2 days,non stop,but no worries..
benoît

Re: The Calm Before The Storm

CTC Forum - On the road - 13 November 2014 - 12:46am
I would put it in much stronger terms. The white Fiat did nothing wrong at all. He was at the right-hand side of, but still within, his lane, ready for his lane dividing into two. Entirely proper and natural. Did he see, in the distance, the approaching motorcycle on the wrong side of the road? Possibly, but there was ample opportunity to the motorcyclist to move over, as he should have done.

The motorcyclist continues on the wrong side of the road, heading straight for the car. The driver is probably thinking, "What the Hell?"

At the last moment, the motorcyclist pulls in, and gives the driver an earful. What for?!?!?

Yes, the video is cute and charming. But entirely mistaken. Doubtless he could have found an example of obstructive driving. Instead, he showed an example of obstructive motorcycling.
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