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Re: Restricted Byway Access?

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 April 2014 - 10:31am
It certainly does depend on the how we define "permissive" and "right". These terms tend to be used to mean mutually exclusive things in a ROW context

There are many permissive access agreements and those are the kind of paths you see marked on OS maps. If you take the term permissive access to mean these official forms of access agreements then they are bound by contract. However, there are many examples of ways which are used by permission without any official agreement. Classic ways of indicating this are to mark it as a permissive route on signage, to close the path certain days or restrict access to certain times. The likes of the National Trust have bylaws in place stating that their land is used by permission not as of right.

A path used with permission cannot become a right of way through long use because the use has to be "as of right" (nec vi, nec clam, nec precario, 'without force, without secrecy, without permission'). This concept long predates modern permissive access agreements.

Orux and IGN France

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 25 April 2014 - 10:24am
Wonder if anyone here can help me please?

I use the excellent Orux maps with online mapping from OS and the IGN in Spain at 25000. Can anyone explain how to add IGN France to the mapsource file. Since it is available free from here for example it should be possible.

http://www.randogps.net/gps-rando-carte-ign.php?dep=43&num=17&lib_dep=haute-loire&meta=CHEMIN%20DE%20COMPOSTELLE%20-%20PARTIE%201

I have asked Orux themselves but suspect they have been given a hard word for pointing to free to use systems

Re: Trinity Portable Wind Turbine

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 25 April 2014 - 9:50am
But wind turbines are green and environmentally friendly so it must be a good idea.

Re: Surviving Norway?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 25 April 2014 - 9:48am
We found pre-cooked chicken in the supermarkets really cheap - especially compared with fresh or frozen

Frozen salmon is also cheap if you go for the odd shaped bits - great with noodles in a soup

HarryD

Re: Driver Awareness

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 April 2014 - 9:47am
however, the traffic capacity on those roads is large. I wonder what they behave like when they are on more British like roads and thus are in long queues just to get to the junction? Are they still willing to let the world and his donkey go first? Or does the infuriation of queueing build up and up?

For instance, in India, where you have the same lack of traffic management I noticed that everyone goes for every gap and it's only the sheer density of traffic reducing speeds dramatically that prevents much worse outcomes.

Re: 'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 April 2014 - 9:40am
..and if we are to use this kind of story as evidence then we can link to loads of stories where cyclists have been knocked off while on the road, thus suggesting the pavement is safer, and demonstrating why this kind of 'evidence' is of little value.

Re: Driver Awareness

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 April 2014 - 9:38am
Somewhat civilised behaviour by all road users mean that artificially imposed civility (traffic lights) aren't needed. You'll note that the motorists stop for each other, and for the pedestrians...

Re: Driver Awareness

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 April 2014 - 9:35am
There's a cyclist at the bottom at 1:34, so they do exist, he doesn't really cross the junction though.

Driver Awareness

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 April 2014 - 9:29am
http://youtu.be/UEIn8GJIg0E

This is Meskel Square, Addis Abeda, at a very busy junction, but there doesn't appear to be any traffic lights, yet there also doesn't appear to be any tailbacks. Is this safer? Are these drivers much more alert and careful than drivers in the UK? Would this be safe for cyclists? I can't see any in the video, although there are a few motorbikes, there is a motorbike that comes from the right at 0:21 that uses a truck for shelter but gives it a wide berth.

The other advantage is that the junction is HUGE!

Re: 'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 April 2014 - 9:25am
kwackers wrote:Postboxer wrote:Was she on the pavement? It is a despicable crime though, filthy scum!
An assumption on my part, I don't actually know.
Nor me,nor the OP,going off the linked report

Re: Restricted Byway Access?

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 April 2014 - 9:25am
A permissive bridleway/footpath has to be established with the agreement of the local highway authority. It's not something that a landowner can do ad hoc. If a landowner allows a path to be used without an agreement it is possible that, in time, it can be established as a PROW.
Depends how you define "right". A permissive ROW grants a right to the public according to the agreement in place. A permissive or any other bridleway can have a restriction such as "no cycles". A public footpath can be a permissive bridleway as well if so designated . There can also be private right of ways eg paths to premises for certain individuals and their visitors etc.

Re: walking more dangerous than cycling?

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 April 2014 - 9:22am
[XAP]Bob wrote:
And to some motorists cyclists are "not important".

It's not as much importance as what you are looking for. If I look down a road for a car I might not see a cyclist, motorcyclist, pedestrian, lorry even. If I look down the road for another road user then I would likely see any of the above.

A line of about six vehicles passed me yesterday on a stretch of road near where I live that I've had more close encounters than I care to mention.
The first three gave me plenty of room,the fourth nearly took off my right elbow.
I knew,due to the traffic I'd catch up with him,as it happened he turned into a pub car park 1/2 a mile further on,on following him in and asking him why he overtook me so close,his answer was where,where did I do that?
I won't say what my reply was but it wasn't pleasant.
They don't see cyclists because they've more 'important' things on their minds,this goon's 'importance' was a pint.

Re: 'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 April 2014 - 9:20am
Postboxer wrote:Was she on the pavement? It is a despicable crime though, filthy scum!
An assumption on my part, I don't actually know.

Re: 'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 April 2014 - 9:16am
Was she on the pavement? It is a despicable crime though, filthy scum!

Re: 2 Abreast

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 April 2014 - 12:23am
ian s wrote:DevonDamo's opinions would seem to be those of a motorist contributing to this forum, not a cyclist; the suggestions are, frankly, so barking mad as to not be worth commenting about further. I am contemplating a cycle size and weight "sidewinder" tilting side car so as to take up more road space. The biggest problem is how to attach it to the bike.

I may be barking mad, but I can still recognize breath-taking irony when I see it. Good luck with your Sidewinder.

A few posts back, someone very courteously offered me all due respect and questioned how I was still alive. Good question. 44 years old. Been cycling since I was a kid and my bike has always been my main transport. Currently in Devon, but spent 7 years in South East London and thence onto various Northern towns. Always committed the cardinal sin of offering faster vehicles an easy time getting past me. Still alive, and only ever had one accident on the road - pothole (in the middle of the lane) buckled the front wheel on my old racer. I'm as baffled as you are, but here are two alternate suggestions as to why I'm not brown bread:

Either:

1. I'm extremely lucky.

Or:

2. My strategy works. It means I don't spend my time on the road pursued by a bottleneck of angry drivers looking for a gnat's chuff of a chance to get past/through me. In fact, I'd wager the average distance between me and vehicles overtaking me is significantly wider than it is for the 'them versus us' brigade. And just to be clear... my 'strategy' is to signal to the faster vehicles behind that I'm trying to let them past - hence riding two-abreast being a no-no. That's it. I've never said anything about riding in the gutter - you can ride well over to the left without doing that. Neither have I said I'd dogmatically keep to the left if there's a pressing reason to pull out. If there is a need for you to pull out, you can still make that all-important 'signal' that you'll try to facilitate the eventual overtake, e.g. by upping the pace a bit.

To the majority of you who are persevering in your quest to teach people to be patient by holding them up: good luck with that. I look forward to reading more of your exciting tales on here.

Re: walking more dangerous than cycling?

CTC Forum - On the road - 24 April 2014 - 9:27pm
Duchess of Cornwall's brother died after a fall (walking, apparently).

Re: Paper maps!

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 24 April 2014 - 9:16pm
If you photocopy your OS maps it may be worth considering going digital - I've been using Anquet mapping for some time & the prices have tumbled over recent years. Central England (1 of 10 regional sets) at 1:50k, for example, is now £15 (£18 for High Definition) & covers 19 paper sheets (by my reckoning - "Equivalent coverage to Landranger® sheets 108-111, 117-120, 126-129, 138-140, 149-152. Includes the Peak District, the Midlands, the North Cotswolds and the Malvern Hills."). The whole GB 1:50k set is currently £100. If you get on their mailing list then there are often special offers, often half price.

The program lets you print sections to scale (not necessarily the native scale of the map - I will often print 1:50k route maps out at 1:25k for walks if I don't have the 1:25k mapping for that particular area). The other thing that may be useful for longer tours is that you get a copy of the 1:250k mapping for the whole OS GB area, which is probably good enough for many cycle trips (I've grabbed a section as an example). It seems to have virtually all the passable roads outside urban areas.

1-250k sample.JPG
You may even be able to get a copy by creating an account but not buying anything as the 1:250k mapping is now part of OS's free to use Opendata* - I don't know as I already have an account & have bought maps.

If you have an Android Smartphone or tablet or an iPhone/iPad you also have the option to use the mapping on them.

Other map suppliers will no doubt have similar, maybe better, offerings - I'm just giving info on the one I know.

(*If you have deep pockets, short arms & reasonable image computer skills you can get the 1:250k mapping free direct from OS - it will cost you nothing more than the price of an email address to give to them for them to send you a download link. For that you get a 153MB zip file which opens up to a set of files including 56 .TIF image files, one for each 2 letter grid area, plus other files to do other clever things with the maps if you have the skills.)

Rick.

Re: Restricted Byway Access?

CTC Forum - On the road - 24 April 2014 - 9:00pm
Yes. There is a big difference.

To be clear, there is no such thing as a permissive right. We either have the right to do something or we do something with permission. We may use terms like permissive bridleway as a convenient description but it doesn't necessarily mean that access is necessarily equivalent to a public bridleway. In most cases it will be very similar or the same but it doesn't have to be. It could for example be closed overnight, at certain times of the year or on a whim. In contrast, a right of way is pretty much absolute, the landowner has absolutely no say in your use of his land as a highway.

Re: Restricted Byway Access?

CTC Forum - On the road - 24 April 2014 - 8:42pm
MikeF wrote:Traffic Prevention/Regulation Orders can be applied to any right of way including permissive ones. A permissive right of way is one where the land owner has given permission for the use. In this case it appears the land owner has selected to prohibit cycles. Cycles and/or pedestrians could be restricted from any bridleway if there is an order in place preventing them from using it.
We're in danger of confusing civil and criminal law here. Somebody can choose to permit the public to do something on their land. They may, for example, choose to allow walkers and horses to use a path. They may choose to not permit cyclists to use the path and put up a sign saying that. If a cyclist uses that path without permission they are trespassing. Trespass is a civil wrong.

The highway authority may choose to prohibit public use of a path by cycles and make a Traffic Regulation Order and put up signs of the prescribed form (cycle in a red circle) to indicate that cycling is prohibited. A cyclist using that path is committing a criminal offence.

And I don't think you can prohibit pedestrians using a TRO

Re: 2 Abreast

CTC Forum - On the road - 24 April 2014 - 8:36pm
ian s wrote:I am contemplating a cycle size and weight "sidewinder" tilting side car so as to take up more road space.

Which could easily be seen as deliberately obstructing traffic.
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