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Re: North Germany to Berlin

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 25 February 2015 - 6:44pm
If you get the chance, the brewery in Wismar is very good for food and of course brewed in the building beer!

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 February 2015 - 6:37pm
danhopgood wrote:Have you read the Highway Code?!

https://www.gov.uk/rules-pedestrians-1-to-35 is not talking about prohibited areas.
Most of these rules do not have the force of legislation behind them. When they do, it will list the particular legislation that applies, such as 16

Moving vehicles. You MUST NOT get onto or hold onto a moving vehicle.
Law RTA 1988 sect 26

Many of the rules for motor vehicles, on the other hand, do have the force of legislation behind them.

Roads are, for the most, parts rights of way established for the passage of people. Pedestrians and cyclists have a clear and defined right to be there. Motor vehicles are only there by licence.

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 February 2015 - 6:35pm
horizon wrote:pwa wrote:Beardy

I don't know how many billion people there are on the planet, but there's too many for us all to move about without a bit of regulation. We all have to conform to some agreed standards of behaviour to make our movements safe and practical. And I do mean all: cyclists, lorry drivers, pedestrians .....

pwa: we agree on this. Cyclists need to be careful and obey the rules of the road (such as they are). Where we disagree is in seeing the moral equivalence between a lorry (even when following the rules) and a cyclist (even when not). The point at issue is not the following of the rules but the imbalanced consequence of not doing so. We need to create rules that demand that lorries take into account the mistakes of others. That's fair, not because lorry drivers should have to follow rules and cyclists not, but because the consequences are different.

So how are those revised rules going to work then Horizon? All lorry drivers to face jail any time they are involved in an injury accident to a cyclist or pedestrian, regardless of the circumstances? All van drivers? All car drivers?

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 February 2015 - 6:32pm
Horizon

I suspect that if we worked on it we would find that we kind of agree on lots of things. I'm not against guards on the sides of lorries, better infrastructure at busy junctions and anything that makes things safer without stopping people going about their daily business. Things can and should be improved. But if one of my teenage kids said they were cycling around a busy city tomorrow I would want them to be 100% sure in their own minds that trying to pass any vehicle on the left when it is indicating left and has started turning left is an absolute no no.

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 February 2015 - 6:18pm
kwackers wrote:danhopgood wrote:Have you read the Highway Code?!

https://www.gov.uk/rules-pedestrians-1-to-35 is not talking about prohibited areas.
As a pedestrian I long for the days drivers obey the rules. Rule 170 would be a good start.

And as a vehicle user I like pedestrians who obey Rule 7D.

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 February 2015 - 6:11pm
pwa wrote:Beardy

I don't know how many billion people there are on the planet, but there's too many for us all to move about without a bit of regulation. We all have to conform to some agreed standards of behaviour to make our movements safe and practical. And I do mean all: cyclists, lorry drivers, pedestrians .....

pwa: we agree on this. Cyclists need to be careful and obey the rules of the road (such as they are). Where we disagree is in seeing the moral equivalence between a lorry (even when following the rules) and a cyclist (even when not). The point at issue is not the following of the rules but the imbalanced consequence of not doing so. We need to create rules that demand that lorries take into account the mistakes of others. That's fair, not because lorry drivers should have to follow rules and cyclists not, but because the consequences are different.

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 February 2015 - 5:57pm
Beardy

I don't know how many billion people there are on the planet, but there's too many for us all to move about without a bit of regulation. We all have to conform to some agreed standards of behaviour to make our movements safe and practical. And I do mean all: cyclists, lorry drivers, pedestrians .....

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 February 2015 - 5:55pm
danhopgood wrote:Have you read the Highway Code?!

https://www.gov.uk/rules-pedestrians-1-to-35 is not talking about prohibited areas.
As a pedestrian I long for the days drivers obey the rules. Rule 170 would be a good start.

Re: Orange / Vaucluse / Luberon - ideas?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 25 February 2015 - 5:50pm
Thanks Whoof, I'll take a look at that over the weekend. I went along the edge of the spectacular Verdon Gorge many years ago, so I may try to build that in. I suppose I'll build a list of attractive places then find attractive roads to link them.

faroe islands anyone toured there, how did you get there fro

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 25 February 2015 - 4:59pm
Hi,
I've been toying with a visit to the Faroe Islands, but getting there with a fully loaded touring bike looks like it might be a bit of an adventure in itself! Has anyone made this trip from the UK recently? What route did you go? How was it? Don't really fancy flying with a bike so would rather avoid planes if possible!

Thanks

Andy

Re: Bikes on Belgian trains

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 25 February 2015 - 4:57pm
mjr is quite right (and my memory was faulty: apologies). No time restrictions -- but there is a permanent restriction on bikes at Brussels Central, Brussels Chapelle and Brussels Congrès (Brussels Midi and Nord are fine).

Re: Advice sought on choosing a touring bike

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 25 February 2015 - 4:46pm
What he ^ said.

I got totally lost one time (or exploring by random happenstance?) & ended up cycling off road past a castle on a sea-cliff. Was rocky as all hell but my 700x28's were fine, apart from when I had to get off & hump the bike over a boulder field. But 26" tires wouldn't have made a difference in that case.

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 February 2015 - 4:15pm
The article referred to re. hierarchy of control relates to experience in the construction industry. The step change in safety there in my view is largely due to the award or otherwise of construction contracts for public sector clients based partly on the previous RIDDOR reportable accident safety record of the companies concerned - which by law has to be recorded. Thus there is a very big carrot (more work) for "safe" companies and a big stick (no work) for those that don't perform. Applying the hierarchy of control is largely done already on managing roads, through safety audits of design through to recommendations of wearing of PPE for those at greatest risk. What's missing from road safety is the big carrot and stick.

Re: Bikes on Belgian trains

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 25 February 2015 - 4:08pm
There is no mention of any time restriction on http://www.belgianrail.be/en/travel-tic ... e-day.aspx but the website precautions page does encourage you to travel off-peak.

Re: How to complain about bad driving.

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 February 2015 - 4:04pm
I've not forgotten to update here about my experience. It's still on going but I must say pulling my own teeth out feels like less hassle than what I'm going through now. Things are definitely not as simple as described in the opening post. However, it has been a few years since so may be times have changed with procedures and processes. Watch this space.

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 February 2015 - 3:52pm
Some of the debate in this topic has been about how much danger cyclists should be exposed to (basically whether protected space at major danger points is a reasonable measure). Bristol Cycling Campaign emailed me a link to http://bristolcyclingcampaign.org.uk/ne ... ing-safety yesterday:
An interesting blog by Alistair Marshall A Health and Safety Perspective of Cycling Safety discusses the Hierarchy of Control approach to health and safety at work. National guidelines set out the necessary sequence of actions through adopting the ERIC model (an acronym for Eliminate, Reduce, Inform and Control). Figure 10 'The ERIC approach to risk management' is attached.

Reading these six points (there are two more on protective measures and PPE, personal protective equipment, which means helmets and hi-viz for example), what becomes clear is that the approach followed on roads, and specifically as regards cycling is almost exactly back to front.

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 February 2015 - 3:50pm
horizon wrote:Ellieb wrote: I can't help thinking that some people on this forum think that it is a cyclist's right to ride on a road in traffic without any degree of skill or care.

I can't help thinking that some people on this forum think that it is a lorry firm's right to deliver goods in a patently unsafe vehicle without any degree of skill or care.
No, he's just pointing out that if none of us cycle up the inside of a lorry (or at least tipper trucks) then we'll all be perfectly safe and nobody will be KSI'd ever again...

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 February 2015 - 3:48pm
Ellieb wrote: I can't help thinking that some people on this forum think that it is a cyclist's right to ride on a road in traffic without any degree of skill or care.

I can't help thinking that some people on this forum think that it is a lorry firm's right to deliver goods in a patently unsafe vehicle without any degree of skill or care.

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 February 2015 - 3:47pm
Ellieb wrote:I also think crazy is unfair. But to extrapolate away from this particular case, I can't help thinking that some people on this forum think that it is a cyclist's right to ride on a road in traffic without any degree of skill or care. I'm sorry but I don't agree.
Of course you don't agree. You've extrapolated away from anything anyone here has written in order to invent a demon to slay. The tell-tale is that you write that you're reacting to what you think "some people on this forum think". I sometimes make that mistake - please try not to join me

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 25 February 2015 - 3:43pm
So to sum up: We're alright because we've learned to cope with heavy traffic and those who haven't should not be cycling in London (or by extension, any place else where motor vehicles may drive on the same road)?
I fully understand the mistake this lady made: I was born in London and riding around Hyde Park Corner by 8yo; discovered Cyclecraft many years later and realised that was what I had learned to do in order to survive: Hey great! Darwinian selection of cyclists rules and we don't need anything to change because that's the way it is. Anyone who fails to ride perfectly around these naturally occurring obstacles is "crazy" and apparently gets what they deserve - because of course we all understand that it is impossible for any modern society (and especially a modern city) to survive without allowing this type of situation to occur.
/sarcasm
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