Feed aggregator

Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

CTC Forum - On the road - 22 January 2015 - 12:24pm
Vantage wrote:I don't believe hondated was pointing the blame at anyone, merely stating that cyclists and drivers on both sides need training to use the roads. Without training, all that's left is learning the hard way.
No he didn't. At no point did he claim it was a two way thing.
His premise was that education was the key and he qualified that by saying that back when he drove HGV's there were fewer issues with cyclists implying that cyclists these days were in some way more dangerous...

However as I mentioned above I think training will have an impact, the problem though is that I see far too much poor driving to really believe that it's all the cyclists fault or that training will really make enough difference.

Not only that but sometimes circumstance means you end up in a position you'd rather not be in. An example for me was when an artic began overtaking me but midway moved back to the kerb because of a stationary vehicle waiting to turn right in the road. He knew that vehicle was there, he should have hung back but chose not to. I made an emergency exit to the pavement - which has luck had it just happened to have an ramp nearby I could use. A quick trip round youtube will find you plenty of similar near misses, and for every 'N' near misses there's one that isn't.

With the best will in the world most cyclists will end up making a mistake at some point. The counter to that should be drivers that are well enough trained along with vehicles that are safe such that should such a thing happen the driver will be able to avoid the accident.
This is similar to speed limits, you drive at the speed limit not because you personally can't drive any faster but because if someone else makes a mistake the consequences are a lot less serious.

It's also no different to my annoyance at cyclists who berate pedestrians for getting in their way. Pedestrians don't even have to be compos mentis, the onus is on the cyclist to ride safely enough to allow them to deal with stupidity from pedestrians and this has to be applied in a tiered system all the way to the top.
That is fundamentally the basic issue of road safety, once you have that then more training is the icing on the cake but until then the best training in the world won't stop you being squished by a tipper truck driver paid by the load and in a rush.

Re: UKIP - get off road, cycle on pavement

CTC Forum - On the road - 22 January 2015 - 12:00pm
He's on the Mirror website claiming "John Major made it unlawful to ride on the pavement": http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ba ... on-5017896 - and the crap redtop lets that go uncorrected!

Bicycles were developed extensively in the UK, so UKIP should love them if their name were accurate.

Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

CTC Forum - On the road - 22 January 2015 - 12:00pm
I don't believe hondated was pointing the blame at anyone, merely stating that cyclists and drivers on both sides need training to use the roads. Without training, all that's left is learning the hard way.
I never had cycle training, I learned (and continue to learn) the hard way and it frankly amazes me that I'm still alive after some of the hits I've taken as a result of my own stupidity and impatience. You'd think after 20+ years of cycling that I'd treat a mini roundabout with the respect it deserves and not roll through it thinking the big 4x4 approaching from the right would wait and let me pass. Nope. He stopped (with tyres locked up) a foot over the line where I'd been a split second earlier. That was on Tuesday.
To balance things out, Last night I ploughed into the side of some eejits car because he overtook me, braked hard and turned left in front of me. No damage to either party, but he got a damn good roasting from me.

Re: UKIP - get off road, cycle on pavement

CTC Forum - On the road - 22 January 2015 - 12:00pm
Quite an unsurprising comment from one of the Kippers.

Banning benefit claimants from driving would be at odds with the viewpoint of the judiciary: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74381&p=757292#p757292

Re: Group rides - maximum numbers...

CTC Forum - On the road - 22 January 2015 - 11:54am
I've just realised that KLWNBUG probably has more organisers available on rides than most, partly because it tries to encourage and develop anyone who's interested. I think the highest ratio may be 5 in a group of 8 (in winter, when fewer riders turn out and it tends to be the more experienced ones) although I definitely remember 1 in 2 and 2 in 4 a few times when ride conditions have been inhospitable (I remember once, 6 still showed up to ride in 40mph winds... another time, 6 in falling snow...).

I think there are 9 in total seen on rides in 2014 (apologies if any BUGsters are reading this and I'm counting wrong), so it should handle 46 comfortably if we know they're coming - if stretched to splits of 12 like mentioned above, then that's nearly 100. If that ever happens, I think it would need to be visiting an event, having a picnic or splitting between several cafes/pubs!

Re: UKIP - get off road, cycle on pavement

CTC Forum - On the road - 22 January 2015 - 11:49am
I believe the difficulty UKIP has is that the underlying attitudes of many of their candidates are quite extreme. Only occasionally does some leak allow us to see what they really think (and would try to do if given any power). Like the "Cyclists only on pavements", like "NHS to move to private insurance ...".

And as Mark says, a vote for UKIP is a vote for what its candidates want to do (the Lib Dems have kindly demonstrated how quickly promises made to win election votes are discarded after the votes are cast).

Ian

Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

CTC Forum - On the road - 22 January 2015 - 11:23am
I read the report looking for clues for what went wrong and, frankly, we don't have enough information to apportion blame at this time. If the lorry was overtaking when the collision happened, then I would be tending towards blaming the driver. If the cyclist was overtaking on the inside and there was no cycle lane I would suspect an unwise bit of cycling. There are various things that may have happened here. We just don't know.

I'm just glad I don't have to cycle in a busy city, and I wish those of you who do a long and healthy life. Things are far from ideal out there, but over time the fact that people continue to ride in London and other built-up areas means that the needs of cyclists are creeping up the agenda.

Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

CTC Forum - On the road - 22 January 2015 - 11:12am
hondated wrote:Exactly whats that all about.
Given you have never driven a HGV vehicle you have no comprehension of just how difficult it can be to get one around a corner. Those that have will tell you that on most occasions whilst they are signalling left they may actually have to steer the vehicle right to get the vehicle around the corner.
In fact sometimes its easier to get an Artic around the corner than it is a 6 or 8 wheeler. Your probably have to Goggle that description to understand what I mean.
This point reinforces my idea of the need for a certain level of competence prior to riding a bike on the road and also perhaps introduce a cycling element either theoretically or practically in the HGV test.

I have never driven an HGV, though I have been in the cab of one more than once, mostly long HGVs that weren't artics, and I am perfectly able to see how difficult it is to drive one- I need no patronising lessons from you. I agree that it is difficult to steer around corners in one, especially if you are carrying a difficult load, like large live animals. But precisely because of that, I would not overtake a cyclist approaching a junction, I'd 'stay back'.

Edited to point out that I did not suggest, and do not suggest now, who was to blame in this specific case, as none of us know that.

Re: Group rides - maximum numbers...

CTC Forum - On the road - 22 January 2015 - 11:01am
Our local CTC group splits the ride once there are more than 12, even if only to have a 100m gap between groups.

Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

CTC Forum - On the road - 22 January 2015 - 10:53am
This sad affair is yet another indication of a poor system which allows this kind of thing to continue and I agree whole heartedly with Kwackers it needs fixing.
It can be fixed but those capable of fixing it simply won't,I offer condolences to the family and loved ones of the deceased,but they're useless if they feel their loved one hasn't died needlessly,unfortunately as someone mentioned up thread there'd need to be many more deaths before it registered in the public's consciousness or for those who can make changes will.
Even then going off their track record the answer would be to blame the victim and move the remaining cyclists out of the way of dangerous vehicles,not put the blame where it belongs and make the operators of such vehicles accountable for their actions,that is the way IMHO of the UK's attitude to cycling,sadly.

Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

CTC Forum - On the road - 22 January 2015 - 10:32am
kwackers wrote:eileithyia wrote:We should be offering condolences for this tragedy not arguing, i am sure we all agree any cyclists death is one death to many.
And using sad events like this to talk about the issues surely?

And if all parties focused on that, it would be better. These are emotive events, but best discussed with a cool and dispassionate approach.

Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

CTC Forum - On the road - 22 January 2015 - 10:27am
eileithyia wrote:We should be offering condolences for this tragedy not arguing, i am sure we all agree any cyclists death is one death to many.
And using sad events like this to talk about the issues surely?

If we believe as hondated obviously does that the problem is the cyclist is the problem then why don't we agree better training is the answer?
If as I believe the onus is on the driver and vehicle design then why don't we agree to fix those?

If cyclists aren't in agreement what chance of getting this sorted by folk who predominantly drive?

Condolences are all very well but if I were her relative I'd want answers and I'd want solutions. I'd want her death to count for something and be a turning point.

Re: Burly blokes on the pavement - why?

CTC Forum - MTB - 22 January 2015 - 10:21am
Their mum told them not to ride on the road as it is dangerous

Re: Snubbed when greeting other cyclists

CTC Forum - On the road - 22 January 2015 - 10:14am
kylecycler wrote:recumbentpanda wrote:My response is to ride with an inane grin (it comes naturally on a recumbent, especially if, like me, you are inane. )
If a panda came riding towards me on a recumbent with an inane grin on its face, clutching a bunch of bamboo leaves in one hand and waving with the other, I don't think I'd have the presence of mind to wave back.
661-Pete wrote:I sometimes have 'bad days' when out cycling. These are days when I set myself wondering, what's the bloody point* in being out here at all? (those who understand depression will know what I mean).
Churchill said, "If you're going through hell, keep going!" I understand what you mean, I've been there, but there's even less point in not being out there. Trick is to keep going until there is a point, until the feeling passes, however long that takes. The year before last I'd had one of the worst days of my life, went out on the bike, a few miles into the run everything hurt, no energy, what was the point? Two hours later, nothing hurt, I felt I could go on forever, and I couldn't understand the way I'd felt two hours before. Don't know how or why that happens, it just does, provided you keep going.

Yes have to agree with all of that. As a victim of depression I know how it is. Can't say I always feel great on the bike with it, but always better when finished!

Doesn't stop me giving a wave though

Re: Feeling a bit lonely......

CTC Forum - On the road - 22 January 2015 - 10:11am
AndyK wrote:hgtevelo wrote:I think it's cycling clubs (and I am a member of one) who can be a bit unfriendly certainly when they are all out on a club run. Where I live in Harrogate it's quite well known that a couple of clubs are a bit up themselves. But of course you can find that in any walk of life

Hmm. If it's a road club then I'm not surprised. Riding in close formation, the front riders should be scanning the road ahead for potholes while the rest of the group should be watching the riders in front of them like hawks, ready to react to any signals or changes in speed. A split-second lapse of concentration in a peloton and you've got bodies and riders scattered all over the road. That's the reason I avoid the local road club's rides, I find the whole thing too stressful. (That, and being too slow.)

Anyway, my point is you shouldn't expect a group of racing cyclists on a training run to wave. It would be a dangerous distraction.

Yep that's a fair point. But I sometimes think club riders think they are above a friendly gesture when out on road (as said b4 I'm member of a club and see it happens) and can look down on others a bit. Especially the Rapha clad type.........don't get me started

Re: Parking on double yellow line?

CTC Forum - On the road - 22 January 2015 - 10:08am
In general, anything on a highway which isn't moving is obstructing it. There are exceptions and the issue of permits to use skips is a good example. (The skip is still causing an obstruction but it's a permitted one.) In general, enforcement is a police matter and nowadays one which only gets any attention when there's an obvious interruption of traffic flow. And not always even then.

Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

CTC Forum - On the road - 22 January 2015 - 10:04am
hondated wrote:<moderated> and have to resort to personal insults so its not worth having a dialogue with you.
Why would I need a disclaimer as the facts and I will repeat what I have stated that no one can judge anyone without having all of the evidence to look at as to who was at fault.
So what does this mean then?
hondated wrote:Look this is getting ridiculous something needs to be done promptly to make sure these needless deaths stop happening.
One of the ways to bring this about is to pass legislation that before anyone can cycle on our roads they must pass their cycle proficiency test.
If that's not victim blaming what is it?

My experience of lorries on roads is that they're a long way from being anything like as safe as you seem to imply. If I sound annoyed then like you it's because I am but the difference is I think the blame should be placed fairly and squarely at the drivers and/or the design of the vehicles.
The law is actually very simple, if it's not safe to proceed then you shouldn't and if for whatever reason a cyclist is on your inside then it's very obviously not safe to proceed and if the design of the vehicle prevents you from knowing someone is there then those vehicles shouldn't be allowed on roads where they can mix with vulnerable users.
End of.

Re: Snubbed when greeting other cyclists

CTC Forum - On the road - 22 January 2015 - 8:56am
recumbentpanda wrote:My response is to ride with an inane grin (it comes naturally on a recumbent, especially if, like me, you are inane. )
If a panda came riding towards me on a recumbent with an inane grin on its face, clutching a bunch of bamboo leaves in one hand and waving with the other, I don't think I'd have the presence of mind to wave back.
661-Pete wrote:I sometimes have 'bad days' when out cycling. These are days when I set myself wondering, what's the bloody point* in being out here at all? (those who understand depression will know what I mean).
Churchill said, "If you're going through hell, keep going!" I understand what you mean, I've been there, but there's even less point in not being out there. Trick is to keep going until there is a point, until the feeling passes, however long that takes. The year before last I'd had one of the worst days of my life, went out on the bike, a few miles into the run everything hurt, no energy, what was the point? Two hours later, nothing hurt, felt I could go on forever, and I couldn't understand the way I'd felt two hours before. Don't know how or why that happens, it just does, provided you keep going.

Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

CTC Forum - On the road - 22 January 2015 - 8:48am
We should be offering condolences for this tragedy not arguing, i am sure we all agree any cyclists death is one death to many.
I note the crossing cycle lanes has been mentioned, a quick look at street view of the junction show both roads are quite narrow esp where Bethune Rd joins Amethurst Park, there are no cycle lanes but interestingly (and can be seen in the photo at the scene), there are bollards around the left corner of the T-junction...
I thought one of problems was cyclists being crushed against railings/bollards and agreement that they should be removed....

This is not a comment on the possibly causes, who might be at fault etc., just an observation of the junction.
Syndicate content

Archive

  • Patron: Her Majesty The Queen
  • President: Jon Snow
  • Chief Executive: Paul Tuohy
  • Cyclists' Touring Club (CTC): A company limited by guarantee, registered in England no.25185. Registered as a charity in England and Wales No 1147607 and in Scotland No SC042541

Copyright © CTC 2015

Terms and Conditions