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Re: Amazing and unfair - Anmimals Act 1971

CTC Forum - On the road - 10 August 2014 - 10:17pm
There was a case concerning a horse and cart being spooked by a child throwing a stone at it and a policeman being injured bringing it under control in 1935

" COA held that D owed a duty of care to the plaintiff because it was reasonably foreseeable that D’ conduct of leaving the horses unattended in a place where mischievous children may be about and where something may happen to cause the horses to run away and thereby endangering the public and rescuers like P might be attracted to help the situation." (http://www.slideshare.net/Kulshoom/negligence-duty-of-care)

So if, say a child of 10 or 11 or even a small, or frankly average sized adult, is riding a horse down a road then it is "reasonably foreseeable" (at least in my non legal view) that that person may not be able to control the animal if spooked and a duty of care may have been breached by who ever decided to ride on the road

Doubt it would hold up in court though

Re: [First tour] Lincoln to Edinburgh, solo, wildcamping

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 10 August 2014 - 9:58pm
I don’t know NCN1, but my experience of Sustrans routes is that they prioritise segregating you from traffic, even if that involves taking you through the back of the industrial estate, round the sewage works, along some fairly awkward tracks, and twice as far as you needed to go. Great for a Sunday afternoon pootle with the kids, but maybe not ideal for long distance riding. Sustrans say that NCN1 from Dover to Shetland is 1695 miles – wow, Dover to Thurso is only 708 miles by road. You might be wise to look at a few maps before setting off, and find where there are nice quiet backroads that are more direct.

Re: Quick poll: Your touring accomm - tent, hostel, hotel?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 10 August 2014 - 9:54pm
On an average year I'll do 2 to 3 weeks camping. I always go down to the South-West to see friends and relatives for a week or so, so on that trip 3 to 6 nights are at the friends/rellies, and the rest camping. Otherwise it's camping all the way, it's part of the trip, I love being outdoors. Only exception being last year I rented a room in Bristol for 3 nights so I could see the city I normally cycle through on the way somewhere else.

Re: [First tour] Lincoln to Edinburgh, solo, wildcamping

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 10 August 2014 - 9:27pm
How far are you planning to cycle each day and have you cycled that far before? A distance you might ride in a day might not be sustainable over multiple days especially if carrying camping kit. Finding suitable spots to wild camp that are both at the required distance from your departure point and close to the route will be problematic in the 1st part of your journey if not all of it.

NCN 1 is signposted but how well is open to debate, a map of that section of the route might be advisable.

Re: Horse Riders

CTC Forum - On the road - 10 August 2014 - 9:22pm
zed wrote:And how is it that dog owners have to pick up all their animal's poo, when horse owners can leave great steaming piles of the stuff anywhere their animal pleases? I was cycling along the beautiful new stretch of tarmacked cycle track that now links Balquidder and Strathyre just after it opened and had to negotiate just such stuff. When I worked at a big hotel which has an equestrian centre there were signs telling riders to 'Scoop your poop'. I've also seen in other countries horses with little bags under their rear ends for catching the stuff.

Hmphh - that feels better.

Unlike dog poo, horse poo won't give your kids a disease that makes them go blind, for a start. They're herbivores, so their poo is pretty safe. It's ridiculous to have bags on rear ends on roads. The stuff is 100% biodegradable. I use the stuff in my compost heaps, it's brilliant.
I'd rather not have horses on dedicated cycle tracks, I agree there. But on roads, I see no problem. Horses had rights on roads before cars- and before bikes.

Re: Horse Riders

CTC Forum - On the road - 10 August 2014 - 9:18pm
A few points that might help in understanding how horses work.

They are flight animals. In a crisis, they run first and ask questions later. The worst thing you can do is surprise them. If you whiz past them silently with no warning, the first thing they see is you coming close to their side. That is very difficult for them, as all their instincts tell them to get the hell away from whatever it is. A rider can't 'collect' their horse and warn it if they haven't heard you either. The horse will see you first because a horse's eyes can see further behind them than the rider's can. If you can warn horse and rider, not too suddenly, before you overtake, it helps.

Horses can't see the ground for several feet in front of them, their nose is in the way. So, especially if you're on a 'bent, it would be better not to pull in too close in front. If you did, you'd suddenly 'emerge' from under their feet.

Most people wouldn't take a horse on the road unless it was safe in traffic, but horses do have to learn to cope and there has to be a first time, so remember, like a learner driver, it could be the horse's first time out. Some riders wear tabards saying 'young horse' in such a case.

A horse could have been flurried by a previous bad or aggressive overtake. Some people in cars, vans, or lorries hoot as they pas and rev their engines, or give intentional close shaves, just like they do to us. Just as it upsets us and makes us shaky, it upsets horses, and they don;t understand why it happens. It helps if you give them maximum space.

There are few bridle paths these days that are passable for horses, and getting to them usually involves using roads. If you don't think horses ought to be on roads, then remember the quotation about 'and when they came for me, there was nobody left to speak for me'.

Horses aren't machines. Even the best behaved one on the world can have a bad moment- like deciding not to step on a drain cover or in a puddle where they can't see the bottom, and moving to the right to avoid it. So giving them plenty of space is always good policy -just as you give cyclists space in case they do something apparently unpredictable (like swing out to avoid a pothole).

No doubt some riders are rude, but please don't condemn the rest for that; we don't like it when we're condemned for a cyclist who behaves badly. Most riders will appreciate you giving them warning and space and passing slowly. If they don't wave a thank you, it may be because taking a hand off the reins isn't the best thing to do when you're trying to keep your horse under close control and reassure it (riders communicate through the reins to the horse via the horse's mouth) and it may not be a good time to shout. Amongst the horsey, a nod of the head or a lift of the stick is the official thank you between riders, and it's easy to miss if you aren't looking for it.

And thanks for reading this far.


PS A rider doesn't know when a horse has left a dropping. They don't stop to do it.

Re: France: Cycling on Coast Paths and Wild Camping

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 10 August 2014 - 9:03pm
Thanks, All.

In the end there was no time for the coast paths (see TdM mapping thread). And most replies came in after we left, so just went for it with the wild camping. Spent one night in a tiny grassy cliff top carpark, along with a Dutch guy in his VW van. Another night we spotted a suitable looking field, asked at the house next to it, and got invited in his spare room .

Re: Tour de Manche Mapping (St Malo-Roscoff)

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 10 August 2014 - 9:00pm
Just to feed back .........

The marked up Top 100s worked v well as backup and for relocating the route after overnight detours. The signage got off to a non-existent start from Dinard for several miles south - at one point with cyclists each relying on others coming the oother way to relocate the route the other side of major road junction crossing . But after that it was great - just the occasional sign missing / hidden by a bush / missed by us. I can't comment on the availability of TdM leaftlets in Tourist Offices - in the end there was no time to check those out.

Re. the route itself, it's been planned out really well - all on v quiet lanes with bits of fine gravel track connecting them occasionally, and a handful of longer stretches of fine gravel. Bril for those wanting a relaxed potter, and would be ideal for inexperienced cyclists. But that did mean it was much slower riding than I'd expected. So with that and the hills - they're short, but lots of them, and with a young teenager stoker more out for the fun than for a workout - we ended up with long days in the saddle, and still occasional short cuts on more direct roads. But still had an absolutely fantastic time. Both came home full of the joys of summer.

The other thing to note is that the coast is only in view maybe 30% of the time. I guess that comes with the planners' compromise of finding back roads. But that 30% is stunning. Have already suggested to Mrs C that we return to Brittany for a family hol .

Oh, and the St Malo - Dinard ferry was great. Runs every 20mins, and a simple roll-on roll-off even for a heavily laden tandem.

Re: Bonnet surfing

CTC Forum - On the road - 10 August 2014 - 8:52pm
I would expect his insurance premium to jump a bit when he next renews, hitting his pocket. Assuming he tells them of the conviction of course.

Re: Garmin Etrex 30 - advice please

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 10 August 2014 - 8:43pm
I don't know about the compass being problematical (i just decided that i was ok with a compass that worked when i moved) but i do seem to remember the altimeter being less than totally great. Many of the maps you will be using, including free, will have height data anyway.

Glad that you seem to agree that you can save the cash and get the 20.

Re: Garmin Etrex 30 - advice please

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 10 August 2014 - 8:31pm
Sweep wrote:I have the Etrex 20.

It's excellent. The only advantage of the 30 is I think the altimeter and a compass which works when not moving.

Neither of which I need.

Both the 20 and 30 take rechargeable batteries. No problem to carry a rapid charger.

Great, I did read that the compass on the 30 was a bit problematic too. Thanks for the recommend

Re: Garmin Etrex 30 - advice please

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 10 August 2014 - 8:29pm
MuirSR wrote:Agreed; I came to the same conclusion as you: that the Garmin Edge so-called "Cycling" GPSs aren't, in fact, ideal for the sort of cycling I do, which is not all-concerned with "fitness" and "performance". The one possible exception is the "Tour" model.

I think you'll find the Etrex 30 does everything you want of it. And, you can mount it to your bike as well, which would be another requirement.

The one thing I don't understand is why you want a unit with regular AA batteries. Will you, in fact, be using rechargeable batteries? I don't believe the Etrex series have built-in battery chargers, so how would you recharge them? Or would you buy alkaline batteries? Expensive, surely, at the rate you'd be going through them?

Some of the other Garmin "handheld" GPSs (Oregon, Montana) can take AA cells, but come with AA-type rechargeable battery packs which the device will recharge from a USB supply. So, out on tour, should you run out of power, you can insert alkaline AA batteries to keep you going and recharge your battery pack later, when you find a power source.

Brilliant, thanks for the info.
The reason I want to use batteries rather than have a rechargeable unit, is that I'll be camping night after night without any recharge opportunity.

Re: Garmin Etrex 30 - advice please

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 10 August 2014 - 8:27pm
I have the Etrex 20.

It's excellent. The only advantage of the 30 is I think the altimeter and a compass which works when not moving.

Neither of which I need.

Both the 20 and 30 take rechargeable batteries. No problem to carry a rapid charger.

Re: Storing a bike for a week to travel home

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 10 August 2014 - 8:12pm
I just had to do this very thing as we had to return home mid tour from Vienna for a wedding.

I decided the easiest way would be to find a hotel with luggage storage and stay there before/after our trip to London and get them to look after our bikes and 2/3 of our luggage whilst away. I got the local tourist information office to help (my German is nowhere near good enough to ask for such things) - it took a bit of time but we found somewhere and our bikes and luggage was there when we got back.

Re: Road bike with mudguards

CTC Forum - On the road - 10 August 2014 - 7:19pm
Oops, just seen your budget again. I don't know if Trek still put eyelets on their frames, but the last one I owned should fit your needs, and should be well in budget. As far as I can remember, a lifetime warranty too.

Re: Road bike with mudguards

CTC Forum - On the road - 10 August 2014 - 7:16pm
It's not quite what you're asking, but I've just a purchased a Boardman cx comp, for commuting, day rides and winter riding. With discount, it cost £550. I plan to buy some lighter road wheels and tyres, making it a 'do all' bike.
It has single front and dual rear eyelets, masses of tyre clearance, and so far I can't fault it. Yes, it's lower end running gear (sora, square taper cranks etc), but I'll replace with higher spec as they wear out. I think with a bit of internet searching, I'll still end up with a cracking bike and spare wheels for around £800.

Re: Garmin Etrex 30 - advice please

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 10 August 2014 - 6:59pm
Agreed; I came to the same conclusion as you: that the Garmin Edge so-called "Cycling" GPSs aren't, in fact, ideal for the sort of cycling I do, which is not all-concerned with "fitness" and "performance". The one possible exception is the "Tour" model.

I think you'll find the Etrex 30 does everything you want of it. And, you can mount it to your bike as well, which would be another requirement.

The one thing I don't understand is why you want a unit with regular AA batteries. Will you, in fact, be using rechargeable batteries? I don't believe the Etrex series have built-in battery chargers, so how would you recharge them? Or would you buy alkaline batteries? Expensive, surely, at the rate you'd be going through them?

Some of the other Garmin "handheld" GPSs (Oregon, Montana) can take AA cells, but come with AA-type rechargeable battery packs which the device will recharge from a USB supply. So, out on tour, should you run out of power, you can insert alkaline AA batteries to keep you going and recharge your battery pack later, when you find a power source.

[First tour] Lincoln to Edinburgh, solo, wildcamping

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 10 August 2014 - 6:57pm
Howdy,

I'm planning my first multi-day trip, from my Sister's place in Lincoln back up to my home city of Edinburgh [~300 miles], in the last week of August.

I figured I'd just follow Sustrans R1 (since it will be signposted), and wildcamp along the way.

If anyone has relevant experience of why this is a terrible idea, please speak now! Otherwise any advice would be welcome

Re: Help with choosing bike type and/or commute through Lond

CTC Forum - On the road - 10 August 2014 - 6:42pm
aspiringcyclist wrote: It would be from Waltham Cross, so 13 - 15 miles depending on the route. Now I have found possible routes that largely ignore the main roads but it does go through the tow path next to River Lea for roughly 9 and then quieter roads for the remainder. two alternatives: using the A1010 and A10 or navigating the complete mess of roads to the west of them where possible. The latter has to include parks and alleyways of questionable safety as there are no quieter roads connecting them.

Can bikes more suited to roads handle a tow path? I have ridden on it but with a (badly maintained) mountain bike and have never had any other type of bike so I don't actually know how they would fare. Is my avoidance of busier roads justified?

If the road bike could handle the tow path then I would be able to cycle quickly virtually unobstructed with at least have a month's training before it gets too dark and I have to travel on the road. If not then it is between choosing one that can and sticking to the quieter areas when the tow path becomes unavailable -as I would say that keeping up at a reasonable pace on a 30mph road would be more difficult - or choosing a faster bike on the busier roads and training on these during the summer.


I regularly use the the Lea Valley tow path for running between Tottenham Hale and Enfield Island Village. I don't see you having any problems on a bike providing you cycle at a sensible speed and be respectful to other users. on the path With a decent set of lights and an appropriate speed you could use the tow path year round no problem. If I were to use the road I'd come down the A1010 (Hertford Road) as far as Seven Sisters Road then up to Manor House along to Camden town and bloomsbury. Although the A10 is a quicker route I've always found that drivers tend to drive too quickly and don't pay too much attention which for a cyclist can be deadly.

A lot of this also depend on the times of day your likely to need to travel.

Re: Horse Riders

CTC Forum - On the road - 10 August 2014 - 6:32pm
Utterly agree.
Horse poo is terrible stuff. Gone are the days when people would greedily scoop it up and chuck it on their roses.

We were in Paris some years ago on holiday and took a trip to the Palace of Versailles. There were pony and trap rides going on round the gardens and the shafts of the traps had a cover across to collect the poo rather than it litter the manicured pathways.

Here's a gate near here with a sign on it:
Please take your dog poo home!

I'd like a sign on the roads to say:
Please take your horse poo home!
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