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Re: Map reading - can anyone do this now?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 23 June 2015 - 4:13pm
The ideal for me would be some sort of combo of the electric and the paper - there was a foldable A3 e-ink jobbie knocking around a few years ago - imagine one of them in colour and waterproof... with all your maps on! Oh Bliss!!
http://news.softpedia.com/news/LG-Devel ... 2222.shtml

Re: Map reading - can anyone do this now?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 23 June 2015 - 4:03pm
I have quite happily hiked in the Brecon beacons with a 1:25 000 OS map and see little need for GPS there (except in a whiteout) - I have quite a good sense of direction I think.

I arrived in Bastia, Corsica in late April armed with a 1:180 000 paper map and two GPS apps on my phone and tablet. I needed to get out of the city and navigate the small, windy roads through the mountains into the centre of the island. I had been intending to stick mainly to the paper map. Ok I could have done that possibly but it would have taken half a day longer. It's not just about navigating in/out of a city, but also the mountain roads were very windy and full of switchbacks, and in those conditions my sense of direction goes out of the window even with a compass. Yes you can stop and ask locals and use road signs (I did both) but without GPS it would have taken me a lot longer. Which is no problem on an open ended cycle tour, but this was a short 7-day trip and I wanted to cover some ground. Maybe a higher scale map would have helped but I would have had to carry 2-3 of those, and that gets impractical. Plus the GPS were multifunctional i.e. they were my phone and tablet that I could use for other things, whereas a paper map only has a single function.

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 June 2015 - 3:58pm
Flinders wrote:That seems sensible. But it doesn't explain the gender gap when it comes to these incidents.

Is there a gender gap? Are there available stats?

Re: Map reading - can anyone do this now?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 23 June 2015 - 3:49pm
I don't have a cycle computer which can do navigation, so I use an OS map, 1:50000 scale, sure it may be on my smart phone and it may cheat a little by pinpointing my location, but it's still what I use for navigation.

Re: Map reading - can anyone do this now?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 23 June 2015 - 3:48pm
As artefacts, I prefer paper maps to screens. I like the way it's easier to read the surrounding countryside on a 1:50 / 100k map. The biggest stumbling block for me always was the fact that I was never very good at reading a map! So for me, a GPS jobbie is a God Send 'cos it simply says, 'You don't know where you are, do you, Simon - let me remind you!' and I can then follow the route I was planning all along, on the paper map! I am used to the way the land shows on an OS map (and to a lesser extent, the IGN Top 100 maps) and so I'll always take them with me. I will take them out to peruse when I have my evening meal, to plan the next day's ride, spreading it out so I can 'see' for miles around.
And the other problem these days is my eyesight but that's just the way it goes!

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 June 2015 - 3:40pm
kwackers wrote:geocycle wrote:Although to contradict myself more experience could lead to more risk taking. Whatever, the reasons it is a scandal that must be stopped.
In pretty much every activity where there's risk you find a bath shaped curve of casualties vs time.
In essence at the start of the curve are the noobs who's inexperience lets them down, then that rapidly drops to a baseline where folk have gathered experience and are relatively safe and then slowly starts to rise again where experience gives way to overconfidence...

No reason to see why cycling is any different.


That seems sensible. But it doesn't explain the gender gap when it comes to these incidents.

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 June 2015 - 3:39pm
geocycle wrote:Is it simply a question of experience? I guess that there are more experienced male cyclists than female cyclists? On average I'd expect an experienced cyclists to make the right choices WRT HGVs more often than inexperienced ones. This could correlate to riding style and bike choices. Although to contradict myself more experience could lead to more risk taking. Whatever, the reasons it is a scandal that must be stopped.

Certainly some of those involved have been very experienced, so I suspect there must be more to it than that - and there are plenty of inexperienced males out there. The gender separation when it comes to these specific vehicles is very apparent. I wonder if size has an effect- a taller cyclist would be more visible in the mirrors on these specific vehicles, perhaps? But there are plenty of small males, though probably fewer, so it can't just be that either. It could be as simple as that drivers drive closer to and/or cut in more on female cyclists, possibly on the assumption that they will be slow.

There is clearly a need for someone who understands risk assessment to go carefully through all these cases to see if there is a pattern - and to do it now so something can be done about it if at all possible. I wonder if anyone has looked to see if there is the same pattern with females and this sort of vehicle occuring elsewhere, possibly in other countries if not here? If not, why not?

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 June 2015 - 3:36pm
geocycle wrote:Although to contradict myself more experience could lead to more risk taking. Whatever, the reasons it is a scandal that must be stopped.
In pretty much every activity where there's risk you find a bath shaped curve of casualties vs time.
In essence at the start of the curve are the noobs who's inexperience lets them down, then that rapidly drops to a baseline where folk have gathered experience and are relatively safe and then slowly starts to rise again where experience gives way to overconfidence...

No reason to see why cycling is any different.

Re: Map reading - can anyone do this now?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 23 June 2015 - 3:23pm
Ironically I've been thinking about this very subject this week as I start thinking about my next trip.

Now that I want to put more effort into Bikepacking/MTB trips I think it will be important to get back to map reading rather than GPS (which will be a handy back-up). The advantage of a paper map is you can hunt down all the fun small forrest trails, bridle paths etc and read contours to have a better idea what is coming.

The largest disadvantage compared to how I now do things is more time navigating and planning and the pain of constantly refolding a 1:50k map.

In some recent trips I've lost the feeling of where I'm actually riding because I'm just following a line on a gps. Though the gps is convenient, easy and takes a lot of stress out of navigating, I think there's something to be had from the experience of interacting with your location while on holiday, as we already spend so much time in a digital world......

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 June 2015 - 3:04pm
Is it simply a question of experience? I guess that there are more experienced male cyclists than female cyclists? On average I'd expect an experienced cyclists to make the right choices WRT HGVs more often than inexperienced ones. This could correlate to riding style and bike choices. Although to contradict myself more experience could lead to more risk taking. Whatever, the reasons it is a scandal that must be stopped.

Re: Map reading - can anyone do this now?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 23 June 2015 - 2:59pm
I'm perfectly happy map reading, I learned with 1:25,000 and 1:50,000 maps while walking a lot in N. Wales and the Lakes from 10 years old onwards. I don't see any need for a GPS device when cycle touring on roads or cycle routes. If I get into multi-day mountain bike routes one day, that could be a different matter.

In towns, my first stop is always the tourist information office to pick up a free map (providing I can find it )

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 June 2015 - 2:49pm
toomsie wrote:mjr wrote:London hire bikes are very well balanced, what with all the weight! Few casualties are riding them, are they?

I wonder if Boris bike are over represented regarding serious accidents. But in my experiance Boris bikes feel very safe so I assume that heavy ladies bike also do.

I was wondering whether feeling safe and being safe are always the same thing. I'm not sure they are when it comes to broad handlebars.
It's certainly true that you can feel safer in the gutter than in primary, especially at first. But it isn't generally thought to be safer.

Re: Is it a, see how close we can get the HGV to the cyclist

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 June 2015 - 2:47pm
No one is ever struck from behind, they swerve out at the wrong time see, and the sun was in my eyes, oh it was night time? The moon was in my eyes....

Re: Is it a, see how close we can get the HGV to the cyclist

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 June 2015 - 2:17pm
I'm not advocating riding in the gutter. I would guess that my normal riding position on rural roads is about 60cm out from the gravelly stuff. That's probably near enough what you are suggesting pwa. Maybe the roads round here are wider. We'll probably never find out the road position of people struck from behind. It would, I agree, be helpful. Any concern for that kind of useful detail is drowned out by other voices calling for helmets, high-viz etc. etc. All I can say is that I don't see cyclists riding singly well out in the road around here and my positioning is pretty well exactly the same as we adopted in club and Audax rides albeit they were/are usually two abreast.

Re: Follow up to accident with London bus 7 months ago

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 June 2015 - 2:11pm
As I've posted more than once, a decent solicitor will say from the start whether you have a case worth pursuing. Obviously, that initial assessment will be subject to more evidence emerging. As has been pointed out, it's the way they make a living so if somebody with the £££ insists on going ahead in spite of advice to the contrary then they'll do it. Most of us haven't that sort of money, although you do here reports of huge sums being squandered in disputes over wills. The old, means-tested legal aid required only that the solicitor should certify that their client had an arguable case. No win, no fee, and similar systems require solicitors to back their own judgment in that they can only make money by winning. The client is protected from losing by taking out "after the event insurance" but that insurance is only available if the lawyer certifies the case is winnable (better than 50:50, afaik) If a solicitor is unsure, they may get another opinion from an experienced barrister.

So, the point that a solicitor taking on a no win, no fee case, is a good predictor of eventual success and a payout seems valid to me.

Re: Map reading - can anyone do this now?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 23 June 2015 - 2:04pm
I think the OS map through a built up area can work if you know your starting point. Micro-navigation around is possible. I did orienteering at school and often it was done using an OS map round town. Instead of orienteering checkpoints we used hydrant points as they often had fairly unique letters identifying them. It still relied on at best a 1:25k scale. It was not hard if you could be bothered to run around. Personally most of us just got the first few then played dumb saying we got lost. Not the case at all.

I've done walks in new areas and i must admit it often got harder to navigate near human activity. For example forestry is often difficult to navigate as things can change as they work the land. Around farms can get difficult at times as well as when you have to pass through part of a town.

Re: Tar on my tyres

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 June 2015 - 1:58pm
+1.

As a slightly bit off topic, I decided to ride every road in Cornwall, and I phoned up Cornwall CC to see if there was a list of roads I could tick off as I did them. As it happens, there wasn't anything useful to me other than a map!
Nearly finished BTW.

However, the chap I was talking to said that Cornwall now has the longest road system in UK since Devon "lost" Plymouth, Exeter and Torbay as they aren't in "Devon" any more because they are unitary authorities.

Yes, yes, I know .........................
His tongue was firmly in his cheek, just like mine is now, but there's nothing better than splitting hairs!

Re: Map reading - can anyone do this now?

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 23 June 2015 - 1:51pm
Bicycler wrote:but try using your OS map to get you through the cycle networks of an unfamiliar town or city.Quite so. Using even a 1:25k OS map, generally regarded as detailed and revealing by some users, for example walkers, would present a challenge if it was the sole source of info. for crossing a strange city. Horses for courses - pick the right tool for the job! Same could be said for a turn-by-turn satnav-style tool, if you have no specific goal to enter into it, for it to aim at.
I remember the hash I made of navigating across St. Brieux in Brittany, just prior to my getting hold of a GPS equipped jobbie. I wasted most of a whole day trying to get across and out of the town and up onto the main route. It was all my own fault and centred mainly on that good old map readers' adage, Always Know Where You Are! If you don't, you stop and work it out. Now of course, that skill - prerequisite, if you like, is completely irrelevant as far as a GPS-equipped device is concerned, because, by definition, it always knows exactly where you are, providing it's working properly that is - and therein lies the rub...
Use it or lose it! (the skill, not the GPS jobbie... )

Re: woman eating ceral while driving

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 June 2015 - 1:47pm
johncarnie wrote:Sarah Vine (wife of Michael Gove) has written a piece in the Daily Wail that is in defence of eating, applying make-up etc and calling cyclists who use head-cams "Cyclist Stasi". Although I hope her tongue was firmly in her cheek (but she did marry Michael Gove, so you have to doubt her decision making skills) the piece has elicited the usual response from the "I pay road tax and cyclists always run red lights" brigade.

For those of you with strong stomachs - here's the link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3130690/SARAH-VINE-says-real-menaces-roads-vigilantes-Lycra-filming-move.html

Shame on him, non-crunchy nutter !!!!!

Re: Tar on my tyres

CTC Forum - On the road - 23 June 2015 - 1:45pm
danhopgood wrote:Just be grateful Devon CC have still got some money to spend on road maintenance!
The pressures in Devon are particularly acute: the authority has a greater road mileage to maintain than any other (old pub quiz favourite - greater than the whole of Belgium), and the prevalence of undrained sunken lanes exacerbates the need for maintenance. Neither of these factors is recognised in the RSG.
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