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Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 26 February 2015 - 2:54pm
I can't see how it can possibly help to make undertaking illegal. All that will do is make cyclists into outlaws. It is a maneouver that many people believe is one of the main advantages to cycling in traffic. And it currently is the only legal way to cross advanced stop lines.

I also cannot accept so easily things like space limitations and 'old' streets. London is netiher the most space-limited nor highest population density city in Europe.

If continental cities like Amsterdam with its narrow, medieval streets, and canal systems can create cycle-firendly space; if Paris with the highest population density in Europe can create cycle friendly space, then so can London. The investment required to do so has to be considered as cost preventive measures. Tragedies like the one in this thread cost taxpayers huge amounts of money, even without considering the loss to society and the family of the deceased.

Old, narrow streets are more suited to bicycle traffic than motor traffic.

I expect it is unrealistic to expect civil planners, highwaymen, or politicians in the UK to recognise that, but until they do, we will have discussions like this.

Re: Cyclists are treated as if they are staionary.

CTC Forum - On the road - 26 February 2015 - 2:50pm
I guess it is hard to judge wind and it's affects on a cyclist your are hoping to overtake. Wind does affect cyclists a lot more than motorists as you all know but it is funny how when we are in the car it is not taken into account. I suspect because at wind speeds where it does start to affect the cyclist you can not feel or hear it in the car. Plus you rarely know the direction of the wind. I admit now that as a motorist I do the exact same sorts of manoevres that I curse others for when I am cycling. I know this but I still drive that way, but trying to be better, and I also still curse drivers when I know that they too have tried to make the effort but had a case of mis-judgement just like I do as a driver.

We all make mistakes afterall and behave differently ewhen using different transport methods too.

Re: Cyclists are treated as if they are staionary.

CTC Forum - On the road - 26 February 2015 - 2:39pm
About an hour ago I was driving along a country road heading east at about 50mph. In the distance I saw the bright yellow top that indicates "CYCLIST" on the roads round here. I adjusted my speed downwards to avoid getting to him / her at a bend. As I got nearer and onto a straight I readied myself for a nice, clean overtake. Plenty of straight left. But there was a stiff westerly wind helping the cyclist which even I, seasoned cyclist, had failed to take into account. On the flat he was doing perhaps 30mph. And it took a good bit longer for me to get to him than I initially expected. I still had plenty of time, but I did have to retime my manoeuvre.

Re: Weight distribution.

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 26 February 2015 - 2:37pm
Last tour my front panniers were 2.9 and 3.1kg. My rear 3.3 and 3.7kg. Including the panniers themselves. No handlebar bag. Before food which would have evened out the rear panniers somewhat. The only handling issue I've ever had was a slight front wheel wobble at certain speeds. Traced to having a half full 1l fuel bottle in a front pannier. Moving fuel to a rear pannier sorted it.

Having front panniers equal weights seems logical though I haven't tried unequal weights.

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 26 February 2015 - 2:34pm
beardy wrote: It's also an awful lot of slippery slope from a few protected spaces for cycling to denying access to the carriageway, but many people used that for a long time to justify opposing it.

That has actually happened and there wasnt much slope between the two. When they want to forbid cyclists from using a road, they have to provide an alternative, sometimes a protected space for cycling filled the bill well enough for them.
No, surely that's backwards: there's a move to deny access to the carriageway first and then they build a fig-leaf? I know several examples of that and I suspect many of them would still have denied access to the carriageway whether or not the fig-leaf was built, either formally by TRO or informally by relabelling the unsuitable shoulder strip as a cycle lane like the Highways Agency has on sections of the A43 and A5. Has it ever actually happened in the direction claimed, that protected space was built first?

It's a lot longer than the slippery slope from banning some movements by cycles to banning more movements by cycles.

Re: Cyclists are treated as if they are staionary.

CTC Forum - On the road - 26 February 2015 - 2:22pm
Same problem results in motorists pulling out from left hand side roads in front of approaching faster than expected cyclists. Quick look registers the rider but doesn't allow time to judge their speed.

Re: New Forest Tour

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 26 February 2015 - 2:17pm
JBB wrote:Des49 wrote:Deevoy88 wrote:Yes i do agree that two weeks is a long time for the new forest however this would be my first tour after being hit by a lorry two years ago. I have a artificial knee, 4 fused vertebrae in my back and also metal holding my right arm together from wrist to elbow. I am in no hurry trust me
I will be starting in Ashurst and "moving on" from there. If i do run out of miles then the I.O.W would be a option for me.

I have great respect for you. Best of luck and hope it all goes well.


If you get stuck at all; bad weather, repairs etc feel free to contact me. We live on the northern edge of the Forest. I too have been hit by a truck - far less physical damge but it's taken a long time to recover mentally. Drop me a PM and I'll happily pass on address and phone numbers.

On a happier note I'll start making a list of places you might like!

Oh that would be great thanks. Yea for a while everytime out and about i heard sqweeking brakes i would tense and freak. Was in hospital for about 3 months, half of that was unconscious.
But a list of good places would be great though. Thanks alot.

Re: Weight distribution.

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 26 February 2015 - 2:10pm
Unladen, mine's 61/39, but I only use rear panniers, so it's 68/32 fully laden.

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 26 February 2015 - 2:06pm
Horizon

whilst I love old buildings and twisty narrow streets as much as the next person, you cannot deny that lots of places where lorries have to deliver to have poor access. I used to drive a minibus a lot, and there were roads I hated driving down, but where there was no alternative. Even small lorries delivering to shop on those roads could struggle to get through. And no amount of pedestrian access would compensate for the shops not getting their deliveries each day. Britain has a lot of infrastructure legacy that we have to live with.

Re: Shane goes lightweight :)

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 26 February 2015 - 1:41pm
foxyrider wrote:
How much? Maybe my 25kg (inc bike) is on the light end of things but i can't imagine toking around twice the weight!

Yup, travelling so light is very refreshing after some of my other trips:

Through the Kalahari I had 10kg of food and fuel + 20kg of water plus abut 25kg of gear.

Hard work on the R31 (2) by shanecycles.com, on Flickr

In Canada I had 10kg of food and almost 10kg of fuel and about 25kg of gear (not including boots that weight almost 3kg a pair )

2013-12-24 11.56.31 by shanecycles.com, on Flickr

Despite being a late convert I do like this lightweight non-sense

Re: Weight distribution.

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 26 February 2015 - 1:18pm
60/40 rear/front is ideal (remember the barbag is part of this) I think others have mentioned all the major points and of course you want to keep the weight low for stability - especially on the front! Don't fill the bags but do weigh them, with two bikes it should be fairly easy to spread the load to give you best performance.

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 26 February 2015 - 1:11pm
It's also an awful lot of slippery slope from a few protected spaces for cycling to denying access to the carriageway, but many people used that for a long time to justify opposing it.

That has actually happened and there wasnt much slope between the two. When they want to forbid cyclists from using a road, they have to provide an alternative, sometimes a protected space for cycling filled the bill well enough for them.

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 26 February 2015 - 12:57pm
beardy wrote:It is an awful lot of slippery slope between banning a particular manoeuvre which is believed to directly cause regular frequent deaths and denying access to public highways.
ITYM contribute to, not "cause". It's also an awful lot of slippery slope from a few protected spaces for cycling to denying access to the carriageway, but many people used that for a long time to justify opposing it.
reohn2 wrote:I'm going to pull the plug this,nothing is being advanced by me continuing.
I'm sorry anyone's position is immutable. To be clear, I don't feel the more damaging road user (whether motorist on person, or rider on walker) necessarily carries the most blame but they almost always carry some. It's part of why I'd like to see presumed liability here.

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 26 February 2015 - 12:53pm
pwa wrote: But I do think that much of built-up Britain was, from a modern perspective, badly designed.

pwa: most of Britain was beautifully designed and we still benefit from it today. The streets were built to a pedestrian scale with delightful buildings on either side, doorways, shops, people, activity. Nothing wrong with built-up Britain.

Modern lorries OTOH are appallingly badly designed. They are far too high and wide for there to be good visibility close to the vehicle and far too large for the streets they apparently want go down. Failure on a large scale.

Re: faroe islands anyone toured there, how did you get there

CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition - 26 February 2015 - 12:50pm
http://www.beaconrcc.org.uk/hubub/2014/ ... -forecast/
This is an article I wrote for CTC magazine some years ago following a four week stay camping by bike. Great place.

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 26 February 2015 - 12:44pm
MJR
I'm going to pull the plug this,nothing is being advanced by me continuing.

Re: Cyclists are treated as if they are staionary.

CTC Forum - On the road - 26 February 2015 - 12:26pm
Absolutely. Larger vehicles (lorries, busses, etc.) are far worse.

e.g. cycling along at 20 mph in a 30 limit, vehicles don't seem to realise how long it would take to pass something if they were only going at 10 mph. so they (without thinking) seem to do the same as when passing a stationary object.

Maybe cars misjudge it as well but being shorter results in things not getting so close.

And the absolute insult (a month ago) was a Travis Perkins lorry pulling in far far too close, only to present me with a real close-up view of their "Cyclists Stay Back" sticker on the back of the lorry !!!

Ian

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 26 February 2015 - 12:26pm
It is an awful lot of slippery slope between banning a particular manoeuvre which is believed to directly cause regular frequent deaths and denying access to public highways.

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

CTC Forum - On the road - 26 February 2015 - 12:20pm
pwa wrote:It's not your fault, as it's not clear from Google, but Pontycymmer is in a very steep sided valley, and turning off the main street involves a very steep sudden climb in most cases. Almost all the streets have characterful terraces of stone houses. Separation of use is not something I can imagine in that situation.
I thought it was pretty clear from both the Streetview (you've handrails and other telltales) and the contours on the map I linked. It's not the Italian mountains, though, and they still separate use there.

Otherwise, you get Pontycymmer's current situation of all the characterful streets being blighted by motor traffic and the safest streets for non-motorised users being the least convenient ones at the top and bottom (although cycle collision stats look marginal, with one slight injury at a crossroads on Victoria Street and I'm not aware of the Welsh equivalent of http://road-collisions.dft.gov.uk ).
beardy wrote:... I don't think this law's going to happen soon. Could you stick to more realistic measures like improving junction layouts?

No, I will not.

Just because they may not want to deliver it, doesnt mean that we are not going to self-censor it from our lists. same goes for presumed liability, we are not going to say "The Daily Mail doesnt like it, so thats the end of that".

If I have to settle for peanuts like "improved" junction layouts, that will not stop me suggesting what we really should be getting. Not that I am particularly in favour of an inside filtering ban but it is an option and I also think it is a more viable and possible option than you do, there is quite widespread support for restricting cyclists' activities.
Firstly, if you can start that ball rolling, where do you think it will it stop? Cycles banned from all rural A roads? B roads too? All routes with lorry signs? All roads where off-road tracks exist, no matter how crap?

Secondly, I wasn't entirely serious and was simply reversing the argument often posted by law-change advocates against infrastructure campaigns, such as viewtopic.php?p=668185#p668185 and many others.

Re: Not all bad..

CTC Forum - On the road - 26 February 2015 - 12:16pm
pwa wrote:A car followed me at a respectful distance for over a minute on a hill with no good passing spots. A school minibus did the same a little later...
I would pull over and let the vehicles past in that situation, but I suppose there are different schools of thought. Still, glad you had such a nice ride.

pwa wrote:...And a farmer called his very well behaved sheepdog to heel as I approached and we exchanged cheery hellos as I passed. It was nice to be on the bike.
Not a sheepdog, a snowy landscape (England, not Wales!), but that put me in mind of this, by the cycling artist Frank Patterson:

Patterson Byway Riding (snow) edit (Large).jpg
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