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Updated: 1 hour 12 min ago

Re: 2015 Nationals.

29 June 2015 - 12:48pm
I was there on the climb of Michaelgate, watching it all unfold. Great ride by Lizzie and great to see 2 Manxmen fighting it out for the win in the men's race.

There was another photographer incident. Idiot just up the road from me, standing in the gutter taking photos and knocked Kiristain House off his bike!

2015 Nationals.

28 June 2015 - 4:51pm
Watched the end of the womans and mens National Championship races today. Excellent rides by Lizzie Armistead and Peter Kennaugh. But the man of race for me was Cavendish.
He spent a lot of time trying and succeeding to catch Kennaugh & Ian Stannard, while dragging Luke Rowe upto them.

Re: Armistead Down And Out................

25 June 2015 - 10:45pm
Flinders wrote:Bonefishblues wrote:OTOH they didn't just jump out and risk avoidance is a two-way street.

Six of one etc
I don't honestly think so, at least in this particular case. As far as I remember, I think the people in the road were still creeping out sideways even as the riders were finishing, just as I've seen similar things happen in other sorts of racing- they get excited and try to see round each other - with no barriers, there's no limit to where they can end up.
The thing is, photographers with long lenses can't see sideways, they're like horses wearing blinkers. So they don't see any hazard that isn't directly in their lens, and the field of view of those long lenses is very narrow. That type of lens also affects the perception of depth and, therefore, speed. I photograph horse racing with similar kit, and in amateur racing where there are no barriers, I keep far, far further back from the racing line (never mind stand in it) and have with me a 'minder' who isn't taking photos, and who has a complete field of vision and watches for hazards for me, like loose horses careering way off the track.

That finish could easily have had even more riders across the line side by side, and no way could they have all funelled down safely to less than half that road.
We always say about riding in the gutter 'never ride close to the edge in case there is a surface problem on the road etc.'. So why on earth squeeze riders so close just after a finish, leaving them with next to nowhere to go?
Yes you're right in part I think, I understand the point about the photographers.

Trouble is, the person with the best view of events seemed to be unaware of the danger until the very last moment when she veered left, as seen from a head-on camera angle in other footage, sadly unable to steer or brake having had her hands aloft fist pumping for 50 metres or so.

Re: Armistead Down And Out................

25 June 2015 - 8:24pm
Bonefishblues wrote:OTOH they didn't just jump out and risk avoidance is a two-way street.

Six of one etc
I don't honestly think so, at least in this particular case. As far as I remember, I think the people in the road were still creeping out sideways even as the riders were finishing, just as I've seen similar things happen in other sorts of racing- they get excited and try to see round each other - with no barriers, there's no limit to where they can end up.
The thing is, photographers with long lenses can't see sideways, they're like horses wearing blinkers. So they don't see any hazard that isn't directly in their lens, and the field of view of those long lenses is very narrow. That type of lens also affects the perception of depth and, therefore, speed. I photograph horse racing with similar kit, and in amateur racing where there are no barriers, I keep far, far further back from the racing line (never mind stand in it) and have with me a 'minder' who isn't taking photos, and who has a complete field of vision and watches for hazards for me, like loose horses careering way off the track.

That finish could easily have had even more riders across the line side by side, and no way could they have all funelled down safely to less than half that road.
We always say about riding in the gutter 'never ride close to the edge in case there is a surface problem on the road etc.'. So why on earth squeeze riders so close just after a finish, leaving them with next to nowhere to go?

Re: Armistead Down And Out................

25 June 2015 - 8:22pm
The video is here:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/video/ ... tour-video

The Guardian has put a "disturbing content" warning on it, so consider carefully before watching.

Ferdinand

Re: Armistead Down And Out................

25 June 2015 - 8:10pm
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
I see that at the finish there were media on the road but they were only 1/4 across and all moved in when the bikes were passing.

We have seen plenty police, camera and spectators bring down cyclist even kill.

I always think that the cyclist are given second priority to the Team cars, photo bikes and the ever so urgent police marshalling the road.

Remember Indurain on a mountain corner

Certainly on tours some places seem to be able to keep spectators off the road and some don't. The rule should be, keep right off the tarmac unless there are barriers that allow you on it, and always - everyone - keep behind any barriers that are there.

When I've seen the police marshalling the Tour of Britain round here they have been very slick, professional and safe- actually very impressive to watch, in fact.

Re: Armistead Down And Out................

25 June 2015 - 8:05pm
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Tonyf33 wrote:Well at Stevenage yesterday there were ZERO photographers or race directors hovering in the road or line of sight, completely free for riders to battle it out and not have to think a split second later about some twit running in front or standing within a bars width of my line at 40mph

If you look closer the camera angle was high and cut off what was further on
Or maybe they were'nt there.
Or the camera director etc thought he wont show them silly people.

I thought that maybe they chose an angle where the idiots wouldn't be visible, but of course I can't be sure.
IMHO photographers should never be beyond the barriers. If they need a better view than the public, pen off a section of the area behind the barriers for them. Armistead could have been seriously injured, or killed, as could any of the photographers, or other riders.

Re: Armistead Down And Out................

21 June 2015 - 3:28pm
Hi,
Tonyf33 wrote:Well at Stevenage yesterday there were ZERO photographers or race directors hovering in the road or line of sight, completely free for riders to battle it out and not have to think a split second later about some twit running in front or standing within a bars width of my line at 40mph

If you look closer the camera angle was high and cut off what was further on
Or maybe they were'nt there.
Or the camera director etc thought he wont show them silly people.

Re: Armistead Down And Out................

21 June 2015 - 1:14pm
Well at Stevenage yesterday there were ZERO photographers or race directors hovering in the road or line of sight, completely free for riders to battle it out and not have to think a split second later about some twit running in front or standing within a bars width of my line at 40mph

Re: Armistead Down And Out................

21 June 2015 - 1:02am
Is this the same rider as Lizzie ArmiTstead ?

Re: Armistead Down And Out................

20 June 2015 - 8:41pm
Hi,
I see that at the finish there were media on the road but they were only 1/4 across and all moved in when the bikes were passing.

We have seen plenty police, camera and spectators bring down cyclist even kill.

I always think that the cyclist are given second priority to the Team cars, photo bikes and the ever so urgent police marshalling the road.

Remember Indurain on a mountain corner

Re: Armistead Down And Out................

20 June 2015 - 5:53pm
OTOH they didn't just jump out and risk avoidance is a two-way street.

Six of one etc

Re: Armistead Down And Out................

20 June 2015 - 5:19pm
Paulatic wrote:Don't think the sun was a problem. Her line was avoiding people until I thought it was a cross wind which blew her over?
Maybe it was a crosswind but reading some criticism of her on other forums basically saying don't take both hands off your bars if you can't control your bike are extremely unfair. No bods in the way = no crash whether she was blown off course or just lost a little control.
Whomever risk assessed that finish & decreed that positioning the paps where they were wants shooting second in line to the race director, who was a complete idiot.

Re: Armistead Down And Out................

20 June 2015 - 4:35pm
Don't think the sun was a problem. Her line was avoiding people until I thought it was a cross wind which blew her over?

Re: Armistead Down And Out................

20 June 2015 - 4:07pm
It also looked to me like the riders were finshing into the sun, which would have made it very difficult for them to see the idiots in the road. In horseracing, special precautions are taken to avoid tricky situations where the sun is in jockeys' and horses' eyes- they'd never allow hazards and the drastic narrowing of a course at such a point.

Re: Armistead Down And Out................

20 June 2015 - 4:03pm
When I saw the footage of that, I thought that none of the people on the race side of the barrier should have been allowed there.

IMHO, the one who was getting on for half way across the road should have been publicly horsewhipped.

If they wanted photographers to be able to get head-on shots, or a judge to get a head-on view, the barrier ought to have been slightly curved there for that purpose, which would have given the riders more warning, the photographers protection, and would have limited how far out they would get, and stopped the morons just going further and further across the road to get round each other. Between them they must have taken up nearly half the road width- with a group sprint finish where bikes could easily have been more than four abreast. It was idiotic.

I photograph other types of racing, and not cycling; in the amateur sector, unlike the pro where there are always barriers, if there aren't barriers, some damned fools will always creep further and further out to try to see round each other - and even if there are ropes, they push them forward or, in extreme cases, cross them. Just two or three people doing that ruins the view for many more others, as well as being potentially lethal to competitors. I have noticed that the people who go as far as to cross them are usually people who are involved with those in the race- who of all people should never be excused such stupid and dangerous behavior, but they seem to think the rules don't apply to them (in the case of the racing I do, those rules do apply to everyone).

In my kind of racing, where difficult shots are needed remote cameras are used - safer for everyone.

Re: Armistead Down And Out................

20 June 2015 - 9:40am
Hi,
Yeh, I did not know that was the race mang.
The other two camera men were taken down............no other info so I assume they were all too embarrassed.................

All ways look where you are going to end up.....................

Re: Armistead Down And Out................

20 June 2015 - 9:34am
Yeah, i watched that and thought that was a crash waiting to happen given the road narrowed after the finish line anyway and was further narrowed with the press far too close to the finish line IMO.
And why the hell was the race director standing so far out?
Sure Armistead swerved a bit but if they had being further back and that clown in the blue shirt not right in her line of sight this probably wouldn't have happened.

Re: hour record.

18 June 2015 - 8:21pm
Hi,
And Dowsett is going to give it another go.......bit like pole vaulting don't go mad just nudge the record a bit at a time
Sorry Mail again
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/others ... ecord.html

"Dowsett added that he would try and claim the record back: ‘I’d like to go back and see what I’m capable of, but whether that’s next year or in 8 years, I don’t know."


"The second complaint concerned the fact that Wiggins was coached by Heiko Salzwedel and Sutton, who both work for the national governing body, rather than by his own team – as Collins tweeted on Sunday evening: ‘Congrats @BritishCycling on your #hourrecord’.

A spokesman for British Cycling responded: ‘Sir Bradley Wiggins was helped by members of the Great Britain Cycling Team coaching staff with whom he is working in his bid to earn a place in the team pursuit squad for Rio 2016."

Re: Dauphine pic, when you've given everything & just fell s

18 June 2015 - 5:36pm
I'm sort of for and against bonuses, there are times when a rider has gone all out to make up time and several have wheelsucked for miles on end only to outsprint in the last few metres, there are a couple of 'specialists' whom appear to do this at all the major events but aren't actually real GC contenders. I understand that's the way it is but it still works out negatively for the one putting in all the effort whom is in a no-win situation at that point.

what the Dauphine showed was that Froome is getting back to form and TJ is pushing his nose into the fray not only for stage wins at the grand tours but also as a genuine podium contender.

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