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Re: Alarming ride in downpour today – braking advice

26 July 2014 - 10:15am
Many thanks for all the helpful replies. I use both brakes, with the rear one fractionally earlier than the front. I do need to be more skilled, though, so will practice somewhere quieter. I hadn't realised about squidging them often on the road – I usually do this to clear off mud from cyclepaths in the rain.

The brake pads were new a couple of months ago and I thought they'd bedded in by now, but they could very well need adjusting as they sometimes make a noise in the dry and feel slightly less effective than those on my MTB. Haven't had a skid for a very long while so I was quite unnerved.

Vantage - Interesting point about tyre pressure as I'd inflated the rear to 1 bar below max that morning. Ditto for bike handling - this is a relatively new bike and lighter than what I've been used to, so I'm still familiarising myself. It's noticeable that there is much less room for error than on the heavy duty MTB.

As for front wheel skids - I certainly hope I can avoid those

Re: Cyclsit just fails to get Darwin award

26 July 2014 - 9:55am
Michael R wrote:So close to qualifying

http://michaelroberts4004.wordpress.com ... -garstang/

You clearly need to understand the rules of the road for cyclists.

1. It is never the cyclist's fault.

2. If it is the cyclist's fault, Rule 1 applies.

Re: Alarming ride in downpour today – braking advice

26 July 2014 - 7:37am
Had a front wheel skid when I was on a wet grassy slope on my mountain bike. Scared the life out of me, there was a wall at the bottom of the slope. First time I've used cadence braking on a bike http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence_braking
I was fortunate that I was going down the hill square to the slope, so there was no lateral force to wash out the front wheel.
Something in the tool box for the future.

Neil

Think while riding.

26 July 2014 - 6:20am
I just thought I'd share this with you. Yesterday, being bored, and having just fitted a working cycle computer thingy to my bike, I decided, for lack of a better idea, to cycle to the local holy temple of gadgets, otherwise known as Maplins. I should mention that the bike is a very tall hybrid that has been adapted as a Dutch sit up and beg style. Comfortable but very tall.

The route requires a dismount to walk the bike over a footbridge. As I'm approaching the bridge, for reasons I will never understand, and without a second's thought (obviously, as you will read), I positioned my right foot on the bottom stroke of the pedal, placed my weight onto it, and hoisted my left leg over to perform a moving dismount that any 12 year old would manage without missing a beat. Only when my left leg had reached the point of no return did my brain do me the courtesy of reminding me that I had not done such a thing for at least thirty years! It also pointed out that the bike was rapidly slowing to a stop and I was running out of road. Well, I was committed (or maybe should be) so I continued as planned, or at least frantically hoped by now, and by dint of some long forgotten gymnastic ability managed to throw myself into a reasonable facsimile of said dismount, only having to hop half a dozen times before I heaved to a grateful stop. I have no plans to repeat this unplanned experiment.

Re: 50 mph for lorries

26 July 2014 - 12:43am
Pete Owens wrote:irc wrote:brynpoeth wrote:
irc: What do you mean by "unsafe speed"?

A speed too fast for the prevailing road and weather conditions.

You said anything that reduces speed is welcome. To walking speed? No? Well there is a balance then between speed limits that are too low and those that are too high. I think the current 40mph HGV limit is too low on some roads like the A9 (single carriageway).

... the road with the highest casualty rate in Scotland which sees 200 crashes per year.

Any source for that claim? This report seems to show that the accident rate is lower than average.

Single Carriageways
Table 4 shows that accident rates on 13 of the 15 single carriageway sections,between Inveralmond roundabout Perth to Tore roundabout Inverness,are below the
Scottish national average. The section of single road at Bankfoot, section number three, does highlight a higher than average accident rate. However, this site has been subject to an extensive junction and road improvement to address right turn conflicts. Since its completion in 2009 there have been no reportable accidents.

Page 32 at http://a9road.info/uploads/publications ... g_2013.pdf

Between Perth and Tore, dual carriageway sections compare favourably, as 9 of the 10 dual carriageway sections have an accident rate below the national average rate of 7.77 accidents per 100 mvk.

Page 61 as above.

Re: 50 mph for lorries

25 July 2014 - 11:36pm
Ellieb wrote:& it is argued this is in part caused by people trying to overtake (unsafely) slow moving lorries.
The lorry speed is not unsafe.

The overtaking driver needs their license revoked.

Re: 50 mph for lorries

25 July 2014 - 11:20pm
& it is argued this is in part caused by people trying to overtake (unsafely) slow moving lorries.

Re: 50 mph for lorries

25 July 2014 - 11:03pm
irc wrote:brynpoeth wrote:
irc: What do you mean by "unsafe speed"?

A speed too fast for the prevailing road and weather conditions.

You said anything that reduces speed is welcome. To walking speed? No? Well there is a balance then between speed limits that are too low and those that are too high. I think the current 40mph HGV limit is too low on some roads like the A9 (single carriageway).

... the road with the highest casualty rate in Scotland which sees 200 crashes per year.

Re: Alarming ride in downpour today – braking advice

25 July 2014 - 10:48pm
All good advice, especially that of front and rear brake use. I will add one more thing which is easier said than done, learn how your bike handles.
I can pretty much guess how far I can push my bike in most conditions, how far I can lean before toppling off or sliding off, how much pressure I can put on the brakes before they lock or throw me off come rain or shine.
Here's hoping I never guess wrong

Re: Alarming ride in downpour today – braking advice

25 July 2014 - 9:54pm
+1 for what drossall said. Rear brakes are okay for taking some speed off on a hill, but front brakes work better for stopping and are less likely to result in a skid.

Try practicing someplace relatively safe, like the empty corner of an industrial estate car park, or something. Try stopping with both brakes and either. Dont send yourself over your front handlebars, but try stopping very quickly. Shift your weight back when you do it.

It may be more comfortable if you put the rear brake on ever so slightly before the front one, but if you can, practice in the wet, as well as dry conditions.

Re: Alarming ride in downpour today – braking advice

25 July 2014 - 9:32pm
Slow Loris wrote:I have Deore V brakes, but they seem less powerful than the Tektro V brakes on my mountain bike.
More likely to be about how they are adjusted (or possibly the quality of the brake pads, if they've been changed) that the make of brake, I'd have thought.

Re: Alarming ride in downpour today – braking advice

25 July 2014 - 9:30pm
But do use both brakes. Bikes are just like cars - braking throws the weight onto the front wheel and off the rear, so the rear skids much more easily.

It's basically a choice - front wheel skids are less likely, but catastrophic, whilst rear wheel skids are more likely but sometimes controllable. Using both brakes avoids putting either wheel into a skid situation (assuming it's not emergency braking).

Brake early and often, aiming to get the rims dry-ish before you need to brake hard. Brake well before corners, where leaning is going to increase the chances of a skid - if you can, don't brake at all in corners, and certainly don't brake hard. Keep off painted surfaces and drains, especially when leaning - they have no grip in the wet.

Braking much earlier allows time for the reduced performance that you get in the wet.

Re: 50 mph for lorries

25 July 2014 - 8:13pm
brynpoeth wrote:The talk here is about maxima. Never seen a minimum spped limit sign!
A minimum speed limit sign is a white number on a blue circle. However, so few people recognise it that it's not used in the few places it could apply, such as the Nene Valley Expressway near Northampton. A non-standard worded sign saying something like "no vehicles slower than 25mph" in a red circle is used instead.

Re: 50 mph for lorries

25 July 2014 - 8:11pm
brynpoeth wrote:
irc: What do you mean by "unsafe speed"?

A speed too fast for the prevailing road and weather conditions.

You said anything that reduces speed is welcome. To walking speed? No? Well there is a balance then between speed limits that are too low and those that are too high. I think the current 40mph HGV limit is too low on some roads like the A9 (single carriageway). I think the current 60mph car limit on the A9 is about right. On other roads it may be too high. Lower isn't always better though. Motorways have the highest speeds and the lowest casualty rates. for their function as a national transport link a 70mph limit is better than a 50mph limit.

Re: Alarming ride in downpour today – braking advice

25 July 2014 - 8:00pm
It's well known that the first rain after a long dry spell produces a very greasy road surface as oil, rubber, and anything else deposited on the road mixes with the rain to produce a dangerously slippy surface. This may well be what caused your rear brake skid. Your braking technique was probably correct as favouring the rear in slippy conditions means a skid is likely to be a rear wheel skid which can be controlled.

The first rain is particularly dangerous at junctions as there tends to be more diesel spills while vehicles are stopped and more rubber left on the surface as vehicles brake/accelerate at the junction.

In wet conditions it's worth applying the brakes lightly every so ofte to dry the rims so that should you need to brake harder they are already dry and there isn't a delay while water is cleared off the rims.

Re: Alarming ride in downpour today – braking advice

25 July 2014 - 7:58pm
Try a back-pedal hub brake, you can't have too many brakes!

Re: Alarming ride in downpour today – braking advice

25 July 2014 - 7:43pm
Have a look at your tyre pressures also, if they're too hard they'll slip more easily.
The recent heat and sudden wet conditions could have made the road 'greasy' too. I read about this, no actual experience of it though.
I tend to drag my brakes for a bit before I need to slow or stop, although this only works if you know when/where you're slowing/braking or can predict the future

Re: 50 mph for lorries

25 July 2014 - 7:26pm
irc wrote:brynpoeth wrote:As for the drivers who get frustrated by others obeying the law: they need psychiatric help.

Whether they need help or not frustration is a factor on the roads and should be taken into account when setting speed limits.

Anything that reduces speed is welcome.

Anything that reduces unsafe speed is welcome.

Sorry, I mean they need punishment, not help! If they are frustrated by others obeying the law, they should lose their licences. No mercy or understanding for these criminals! Maximum speed limits are to do with safety, frustration has nothing to do with it.

My vision is: the millions of frustrated drivers lose their licences. That would solve many problems.

irc: What do you mean by "unsafe speed"?

Re: 50 mph for lorries

25 July 2014 - 7:21pm
brynpoeth wrote:As for the drivers who get frustrated by others obeying the law: they need psychiatric help.

Whether they need help or not frustration is a factor on the roads and should be taken into account when setting speed limits.

Anything that reduces speed is welcome.

Anything that reduces unsafe speed is welcome.

Re: Alarming ride in downpour today – braking advice

25 July 2014 - 7:05pm
A _possible_ problem that you may have had was that when you first applied the brakes you didn't get much retardation as the rims were wet. This would naturally lead you to squeeze the lever harder, suddenly the rim dries up and the brake comes on full whack causing a bit of lock-up. I find the key in these situations is to squidge the brakes now and then to dry the rims before you are going to have to use them for actual stopping. If you see somewhere that you think that you might have to stop then get on the brakes early and lightly to wipe the wet off.

Or get good discs that allow plenty of control rather than a straight choice between on and off , and tyres with a bigger footprint to get a better grip (remember that bike tyres don't aquaplane due to the low speeds they are used at)

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