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Updated: 19 min 49 sec ago

Re: Main roads that don't allow cycling

3 February 2016 - 3:35pm
I understand that as far as future road projects are concerned. But surely that would mean that you have a problem with prohibiting cycling on existing main roads that cyclists may currently use legally? Or do you mean prohibiting cycling isn't a problem on roads which were originally built to bypass other older roads? Many bypasses date back decades, yet it only takes a short time for people to change their travel patterns to adapt to the current network. The road network available to cyclists of previous generations is of no concern to the current cycle users of a road.

I think that almost all newly-constructed non-motorway main roads really ought to include pedestrian/cycle path(s) anyway. I can understand that there might be cases involving circuitous bypasses, or where existing parallel roads meant the new one offered no conceivable benefit to cyclists. In these cases cycle facilities might be superfluous. That's different to building a nice new direct bypass and telling cyclists "don't worry you can still ride through the town centre". At the end of the day these are allegedly all purpose roads constructed out of public money and proper provision for cyclists and pedestrians ought to be considered as part of that.

Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

3 February 2016 - 3:26pm
Is it possible to ignore the fact a vehicle was used and press charges for GBH or ABH, then they wouldn't be able to hide behind not providing driver details.

Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

3 February 2016 - 3:21pm
TrevA wrote:The story was featured on BBC East Midlands news at lunchtime. The car was a hire car and the police have been unable to trace the driver. Probably hired in a company name and the company unwilling to say which of their employees was driving. The Police say that they are very disappointed with the outcome, but there's nothing further they can do. Reginald Scot was interviewed on the programme at the scene of the incident and says it hasn't put him off cycling but he too is disappointed by the outcome. The incident did happen about a year ago but he has only just made the video public.
There is such a thing as 'natural justice', whether you condone it or not, where what is known tends to have consequences, but if Reginald Scott was to name the company and the individual who 'received six penalty points and a £150 fine for failing to provide driver details', would that prejudice any attempt at a private prosecution? Would posting the video on YouTube even prejudice a private prosecution? Is a private prosecution a feasible proposition? Don't know, just asking.

Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

3 February 2016 - 3:19pm
kwackers wrote:reohn2 wrote:Who's been prosecuted then
The only person they can prosecute is the person that 'hired' the car.

Let's face it, nobody takes a 6 point hit and a fine unless to come 'clean' potentially means something worse happens.

I think we're singing from the same hymn sheet

Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

3 February 2016 - 3:17pm
reohn2 wrote:Who's been prosecuted then
The only person they can prosecute is the person that 'hired' the car.

Let's face it, nobody takes a 6 point hit and a fine unless to come 'clean' potentially means something worse happens.

Re: Main roads that don't allow cycling

3 February 2016 - 1:28pm
Tangled Metal wrote:IMHO I've no problem with banning cyclists from such roads. It's a safety thing. What I do have a problem with is how they can be designed and built without full consideration of all who might use it or who do use whatever provision was there before any upgrade to dual carriageway. There are design standards for roads now, perhaps time for these to include adequate cycle provision. Doubt it'll happen in my lifetime and I'm only in my early 40s.
I have a problem with banning cycling on these roads. A roads are the most direct and flatest route in most places. In some places, there are no reasonable alternatives. In many, the alternatives are circuitous, poorly maintained, or primarily on undeveloped rights of way, such as bridle paths or BOATs.

There are some homes and businesses off the A12 that cannot be gotten to without using the A12. There are also a few places (for example the junctions near East Bergholt) where a 1/2 mile on the A12 will save 6 miles of back lanes. The back lanes are certainly more pleasant, but if you were in a hurry? Or worked at one of the businesses there? Would like to be told that you had an extra 25 minutes journey time because the road isn't safe for cyclists?

If you read viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70096 which gaz linked earlier int he thread, you will find that one cyclist found out about such a ban after being escorted off the A120 by police.

Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

3 February 2016 - 1:21pm
horizon wrote:pwa wrote:
You misunderstand my comments

Yes I did, I'm sorry.

Had the driver lost control we could be angry at their stupidity (and all the stuff that goes with vehicles of this sort). But if they stopped and helped and owned up to their failings, we could leave the incident to those who deal with these things in the knowledge that it would be done properly.

However that didn't happen (and still isn't happening) which is why there is a lot of very justifiable anger around. I would be the first to forgive (hopefully) and the last to want someone to go to prison. But the law works to protect and deter as well as punish so any sympathy at this stage is IMV misplaced. Hence my strong reaction to your post.

Thanks. We are in agreement. It has long been a problem that identifying a vehicle does not lead directly to identifying the driver. Very frustrating.

Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

3 February 2016 - 1:17pm
pwa wrote:
You misunderstand my comments

Yes I did, I'm sorry.

Had the driver lost control we could be angry at their stupidity (and all the stuff that goes with vehicles of this sort). But if they stopped and helped and owned up to their failings, we could leave the incident to those who deal with these things in the knowledge that it would be done properly.

However that didn't happen (and still isn't happening) which is why there is a lot of very justifiable anger around. I would be the first to forgive (hopefully) and the last to want someone to go to prison. But the law works to protect and deter as well as punish so any sympathy at this stage is IMV misplaced. Hence my strong reaction to your post.

Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

3 February 2016 - 1:12pm
pwa wrote:horizon wrote:pwa wrote:Some confusion with the vehicle's controls. Possibly alcohol still in the system from the night before.



And we must of course be very gentle and understanding when a mature adult drives off in a vehicle that they don't know how to control. And a little drink, well that's very understandable too. And not stopping to help when you've hit someone who lies potentially dying. On these points we must feel every sympathy with the driver.

Oh, and the hire company: could they not be held responsible for checking that the hirer knew how to control the vehicle. No. More sympathy there as well I think.

I've got no sympathy with the driver. You misunderstand my comments if you think I have. I'm just suggesting that the collision was (I think) more likely to be down to gross incompetence (including the possibility of alcohol in the system) rather than a deliberate attempt to run down the victim. And I suggest that the failure to stop may have been a panic action. At the very least it is spineless to fail to come back and face the music.

It's spineless and unforgivable to leave another human being lying injured in the road. Even it were a panic action, the driver had plenty of time after the collision to come forward. They chose not to - that is indefensible.

Re: Main roads that don't allow cycling

3 February 2016 - 12:42pm
Having driven on the A19 many times over the last 5 years I can honestly say I'd rather find another means of transportation than cycle on that road. It is not much.different to a motorway.

As a kid I have ridden, on a family ride, along a stretch of dual carriageway near Southport. It was a rare event going on there because as a primary school aged kid it was terrifying. More terrifying for my dad who had to corral two young kids who probably hadn't developed fear of fast moving traffic yet. I do remember the feeling of cars and trucks passing close by. At that age it felt like we'd get blown over by a passing truck.

IMHO I've no problem with banning cyclists from such roads. It's a safety thing. What I do have a problem with is how they can be designed and built without full consideration of all who might use it or who do use whatever provision was there before any upgrade to dual carriageway. There are design standards for roads now, perhaps time for these to include adequate cycle provision. Doubt it'll happen in my lifetime and I'm only in my early 40s.

Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

3 February 2016 - 12:29pm
horizon wrote:pwa wrote:Some confusion with the vehicle's controls. Possibly alcohol still in the system from the night before.



And we must of course be very gentle and understanding when a mature adult drives off in a vehicle that they don't know how to control. And a little drink, well that's very understandable too. And not stopping to help when you've hit someone who lies potentially dying. On these points we must feel every sympathy with the driver.

Oh, and the hire company: could they not be held responsible for checking that the hirer knew how to control the vehicle. No. More sympathy there as well I think.

I've got no sympathy with the driver. You misunderstand my comments if you think I have. I'm just suggesting that the collision was (I think) more likely to be down to gross incompetence (including the possibility of alcohol in the system) rather than a deliberate attempt to run down the victim. And I suggest that the failure to stop may have been a panic action. At the very least it is spineless to fail to come back and face the music.

Re: My puncture phobia

3 February 2016 - 12:12pm
Hi,
If only life was so easy.
Don't you finish the second bead at valve not start at valve
You need a "shallow rim well" to do that video justice, then watch the operator curse

Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

3 February 2016 - 11:57am
jochta wrote:...... If there was no priors (which the cyclist says) then this incident is incompetence rather than malicious IMO, probably texting or fiddling with something. It seems odd that they forgot the cyclist was there unless their otherwise engaged brain had assumed he had taken the first exit at the roundabout.

And the driving off leaving the victim in the road in agony,would that be incompetence,or malice of afterthought?
And the refusal to declare who was driving,that would be incompetence too?
And the sentence,is that incompetence?

Or they didn't know there was a rear facing camera fitted on bike they ran into and thereby thought they were anonymous.

Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

3 February 2016 - 11:54am
If this were CSI they would have sone some amazing video enhancement process to see through the windscreen and know who exactly was driving. If there was no priors (which the cyclist says) then this incident is incompetence rather than malicious IMO, probably texting or fiddling with something. It seems odd that they forgot the cyclist was there unless their otherwise engaged brain had assumed he had taken the first exit at the roundabout.

Re: My puncture phobia

3 February 2016 - 11:43am
gaz wrote:So far as getting tyres on the rim is concerned have you seen 531Colin's tutorial:
You may wish to consider a VAR tyre lever or if you don't mind carrying something a bit more workshop a Koolstop tyre mate. Both are useful for getting stubborn tyres on.


I didn't know 531cilin made that video my thanks to him. I followed the video and it worked with my new 25c Marathon Plus. Technique is really important with these tyres.

Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

3 February 2016 - 10:56am
Or could we be dealing with two people who knew exactly the course of action to take,due to their competence,after the initial incompetence?

If they knew what they were doing, they would have stopped and made some feeble excuse and got off with only three points or nothing.

Unless they were drunk or drugged up.

Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

3 February 2016 - 10:41am
pwa wrote:That video footage, whilst alarming, does raise the old question of whether it was deliberate or grossly incompetent. I would guess that it is more likely to be the latter. I,m not saying that because I have great faith in human nature and like to see the best in people. It is more to do with my lack of faith in the competence of some drivers, and it would not surprise me at all if that shunt was the result of a number of misjudgments happening at the same time. Lack of familiarity with the width of the vehicle. A distraction of some sort. Some confusion with the vehicle's controls. Possibly alcohol still in the system from the night before. And then panic when it goes wrong. Not good excuses, of course, but realistic explanations.

Nine times out of ten that accident would probably leave the victim the way it did, winded, bashed and bruised. But there is always the one in ten occasion when the result is worse.

And the driving off leaving the victim in the road in agony,would that be incompetence,or malice of afterthought?
And the refusal to declare who was driving,that would be incompetence too?
And the sentence,is that incompetence?

Or could we be dealing with two people who knew exactly the course of action to take,due to their competence,after the initial incompetence?

Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

3 February 2016 - 10:37am
Vantage wrote:That's great news.
Now, if I find I don't like someone, I can just buy a gun, shoot them, deny I had anything to do with it and get away with it.

The more relevant comparison is that if there are two people who had access to the gun, and they can't show which of you took the gun and shot the person, and there were no other factors pointing strongly enough to one of you rather than the other, then, yes you can get away with this. Cases like this exist. One notable example was a case where they found DNA at a serious crime scene, but it turned out to match identical twins. Each twin accused the other, and so neither could be prosecuted. (There are complications - you can in fact distinguish the DNA of identical twins, but it requires very expensive time-consuming processes, and their reliability is not court-tested.)

Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

3 February 2016 - 10:32am
661-Pete wrote:And I keep thinking 'Chris Huhne' here. How come he and his ex-missus get hauled over the coals, over a relatively minor offence, whilst these lowlife get off almost scot-free?

Ditto.
Who was 'shopped' by a 'crime of passion'(?).

In the case of these two despicable creatures,I'm still wondering what they do for a living,and who advised(looked after) them on their evasion of 'justice'

Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

3 February 2016 - 10:29am
That video footage, whilst alarming, does raise the old question of whether it was deliberate or grossly incompetent. I would guess that it is more likely to be the latter. I,m not saying that because I have great faith in human nature and like to see the best in people. It is more to do with my lack of faith in the competence of some drivers, and it would not surprise me at all if that shunt was the result of a number of misjudgments happening at the same time. Lack of familiarity with the width of the vehicle. A distraction of some sort. Some confusion with the vehicle's controls. Possibly alcohol still in the system from the night before. And then panic when it goes wrong. Not good excuses, of course, but realistic explanations.

Nine times out of ten that accident would probably leave the victim the way it did, winded, bashed and bruised. But there is always the one in ten occasion when the result is worse.

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