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Re: Bus plus a bike?

11 May 2015 - 7:43pm
We put our bikes on the back of a bus in Lofoten in 2011. We travelled from Leknes to Moskenes and there was space on a simple rack for two bikes. Long distance coaches in Norway generally have space under the back or the sides of the bus big enough to take a bike or four (-panniers) slid in sideways. I prefer that. In Lofoten the bus we wanted already had two bikes on the back. So we had to wait a couple of hours for the next bus.

I have also seen bikes on the front of buses in the Vancouver area. Not sure how that works if the bus happens to hit a pedestrian or another cyclist. It probably causes as much damage to soft bodies as bull bars do.

Re: Signs - Minutes or Mileage

11 May 2015 - 3:46pm
Tonyf33 wrote:foxyrider wrote:There are some cycleroute signs in Handsworth, Sheffield that use time rather than distance - I'd post a pic but Streetview isn't new enough! Anyhow, the signage suggests Rotherham is 40 minutes and Meadowhall a mere 30 minutes.
Is that accurate or not?
Google maps gives a just over 4 mile distance to Meadowhall by road (a fair few minor roads not the car route) and a generous 10mph speed considering it's downhill all the way, is the signposted route suggested the one that goes all the way around the golf course?

From where the signs are i could by road in @ 15 minutes to M/hell, maybe 30 to Rotherham centre. The route they take you goes out around the airport then along the canal tow path, 30 minutes to 'hell would be about right, to Rotherham not sure which way they take you but i'm guessing something similar to Brinsworth so 40 mins quite doable. The return however is mostly uphill......

Re: Signs - Minutes or Mileage

11 May 2015 - 2:12pm
thirdcrank wrote:More generally, I'm amazed that so much effort has gone into this discussion with little comment about the rubbish "routes" which are being signed. Marketing has been mentioned and that's about it. It's often one more way of advertising "how much has been done for cyclists" so why don't they get off the roads and show a bit of gratitude? The mar... word here really is marginalisation.

Not always, although I have educated a few councillors that the reason cyclists are on the carriageway rather than the adjacent shared-use paths is often because those paths are unrideable junk. It's amazing how much ride-through videos highlighting the hazards helps, even if the councillor cannot/will not ride a bike around their own constituency themselves.

I'm trying to persuade our local cycling campaign to take control of the routing network for precisely this reason. It sucks that we need to DIY, but I can't see how else to stop the county council signposting routes that are Simple, Obvious and Wrong because they're sat 40-60 miles away and have forgotten that they built a barrier that prevents use by most cycles (including the hybrids that their construction contractors ride, but not the racing and folding bikes that the highway officers ride), that they let the borough council build a ramp that blocks a cycle route, or that they've let a surface deteriorate to the point that it damages bikes if they exceed 10mph!

Signposting different routes for bikes makes sense in King's Lynn. There are many paths/tracks, bridges and even level crossings which are closed to motor vehicles but open to bikes and that cut miles off of some journeys.

Re: Signs - Minutes or Mileage

11 May 2015 - 1:52pm
I think that including time estimates alongside mileages would be a good idea, particularly in urban areas where it might encourage more people to cycle. The times should be realistically achievable for any adult in moderate health who hasn't been on a bike since they were little. Particularly if the routes are direct and have priority over motor traffic (some hope, I know!) then a shorter ride than a drive may well entice many people.

In Birmingham, at least, I suspect there is little danger of suggested times being too ambitious. The Council are putting in bike infrastructure in the centre and on commuter routes, but only as far as 20 minutes' cycle from the city centre. I don't want to accuse them of being pessimistic about the average speed of cyclists, but I can RUN from my house to the city centre in 20 minutes and their infrastructure plans don't extend out as far as my house.

Re: Signs - Minutes or Mileage

11 May 2015 - 1:03pm
I've made the point before, elsewhere (to the ivory tower) and probably on here, that distances in miles need to be shown along any extended off-road route in relatively deserted areas. I'm thinking in particular of disused railway tracks but there must be others. An inexperienced rider on that sort of path who suffers any sort of emergency for which they are unprepared (eg puncture or hunger knock) and who may have to resort to walking, needs to know whether it would be best to turn back or if they are "past the point of no return." I've been asked for this info myself by somebody I was able to help to continue happily on their way. (Fifty-odd years ago, a passing rider fixed a puncture for me and I've been fully equipped ever since and happy to repay my debt of gratitude to him to a younger generation.)

More generally, I'm amazed that so much effort has gone into this discussion with little comment about the rubbish "routes" which are being signed. Marketing has been mentioned and that's about it. It's often one more way of advertising "how much has been done for cyclists" so why don't they get off the roads and show a bit of gratitude? The mar... word here really is marginalisation.

Re: Signs - Minutes or Mileage

11 May 2015 - 12:36pm
whizzzz wrote:This was just what I was thinking both, a time for a slow / new rider and a distance would cover those who "get" miles and those who would think "wow, only 10 mins by bike, I might give that a go as I think I can do that long on a bike..." but who might shy away from a 2 mile ride. I love the idea that more people might try riding to something as simple as this.
The slow/new riders would not believe that they could cover 2 miles in the time given, or get depressed and give up riding if they didn't. The fast riders would take the times as a challenge to beat, adding the given times to the segment names on Strava and encouraging everyone to take mad risks and knock down old ladies on their way to evensong and pregnant women pushing prams. Worst of all worlds, isn't it?

Re: Caution Cyclists Signs

11 May 2015 - 11:58am
drossall wrote:Tonyf33 wrote:They are utterly futile IMHO, here is the ONLY crossing to get to Stevenage from Letchworth ...

I'd give it a wide berth, and go via Willian and Wymondley, or from Willian via the Great North Cycle Route, across the fields towards Graveley.
Oh I use it frequently, it's a habit as much as anything else though I have gone the Willian/Wymondly/Gravely route on the odd occasion but the lanes in places are very narrow and twisty in places. It just infuriates me that when they built the bypass they thought right we'll put a crossing in for cyclists but we'll put a warning sign up only 3-4 seconds worth of driving time ahead and ensure that the signs actually hide people standing/waiting at the crossing due to the crown of the bend, you couldn't make it up

Re: Signs - Minutes or Mileage

11 May 2015 - 11:18am
sirmy wrote:Oddly on road signs The North only refers to the area west of the Pennines, places to the East are listed by name(and there's a limited number of them that can be used)!

I'm fairly sure that there are signs to The North to be found on the A1, including in Northumberland. There are also signs to The North to be found in Scotland, I particularly remember seeing one in Fort William as it struck me as quite funny.

Re: Signs - Minutes or Mileage

11 May 2015 - 9:52am
I think it needs further definition. A fat man minute might be more than a slim lass minute.... they could have names '`five Pickwicks to town centre' 'Just a Wiggo away.'

Re: Signs - Minutes or Mileage

11 May 2015 - 9:21am
Richard Fairhurst wrote:sirmy wrote:The use of time on a sign rather than distances isn't aimed at people who would post on forums like this. To many people a ride of 10 minutes is a lot less intimidating than one of 1.5 miles, even though at about 10mph they are roughly the same (about 6 minutes a mile).

Yep, that's exactly it. They're there for marketing, not just information - "why not try cycling? It's quicker than you think, and might be quicker than this traffic jam you're currently stuck in". I think they were first tried in Aylesbury, one of the Cycling Demonstration Towns.


This was just what I was thinking both, a time for a slow / new rider and a distance would cover those who "get" miles and those who would think "wow, only 10 mins by bike, I might give that a go as I think I can do that long on a bike..." but who might shy away from a 2 mile ride. I love the idea that more people might try riding to something as simple as this.

Re: Caution Cyclists Signs

10 May 2015 - 11:56pm
Tonyf33 wrote:They are utterly futile IMHO, here is the ONLY crossing to get to Stevenage from Letchworth ...

I'd give it a wide berth, and go via Willian and Wymondley, or from Willian via the Great North Cycle Route, across the fields towards Graveley.

Re: Bus plus a bike?

10 May 2015 - 10:43pm
North America of Lancaster? Ha, I wish that Lancaster was in North America! I guess predictive is getting feisty there TM. Carnforth to Warton though, what, 1 mile? Having not read right through my own link though, the buses I listed could go that way. Nice riding round there though, and getting on train not usually troublesome.

Re: Bus plus a bike?

10 May 2015 - 8:41pm
About 10 years ago the local bus routes linking up small villages took up to 4 bikes IIRC. I never saw them but read a cycling route leaflet from the local.council published to encourage use of bikes with.buses. Can't remember the bus numbers but there was one round from.Carnforth to Warton and some villages with Yealand in them. Another went through over Kellet. This is north America of Lancaster which was among the 5 towns that were the first cycling demonstration.towns way back.

I'm sure I've seen some in Scotland. Perhaps those post buses.

Re: Bus plus a bike?

10 May 2015 - 8:34pm
Ascidian wrote:Go North East used to carry bikes along part of the Consett to Sunderland cycle way. You could put them in the wheel chair bay.

They still do. At least from Chester Le street to Consett maybe Sunderland too.

However the list of reasons as to why a bike won't be permitted to board or why they would be asked to get off is as long as your arm.

Plus the fact that it's quicker to cycle the route than use the bus.

Re: Signs - Minutes or Mileage

10 May 2015 - 8:19pm
sirmy wrote:The use of time on a sign rather than distances isn't aimed at people who would post on forums like this. To many people a ride of 10 minutes is a lot less intimidating than one of 1.5 miles, even though at about 10mph they are roughly the same (about 6 minutes a mile).

Yep, that's exactly it. They're there for marketing, not just information - "why not try cycling? It's quicker than you think, and might be quicker than this traffic jam you're currently stuck in". I think they were first tried in Aylesbury, one of the Cycling Demonstration Towns.

(Incidentally, on the theme of "route numbers only are no use", the latest Sustrans ranger newsletter popped through the door yesterday and has an article encouraging us to use more signs with destinations on...)

Re: Signs - Minutes or Mileage

10 May 2015 - 8:00pm
foxyrider wrote:There are some cycleroute signs in Handsworth, Sheffield that use time rather than distance - I'd post a pic but Streetview isn't new enough! Anyhow, the signage suggests Rotherham is 40 minutes and Meadowhall a mere 30 minutes.
Is that accurate or not?
Google maps gives a just over 4 mile distance to Meadowhall by road (a fair few minor roads not the car route) and a generous 10mph speed considering it's downhill all the way, is the signposted route suggested the one that goes all the way around the golf course?

Re: Any point in reporting a v v close pass?

10 May 2015 - 7:59pm
Bigjim - I did wonder if the close pass 4x4 was a hybrid. I didn't hear it behind me which I normally do.

Re: Glad They Got a Bike Lane

10 May 2015 - 7:22pm
Cyclists and walkers can still use the pedestrian path and cycletrack on the M2 bridge.

The s106 agreement extended the pedestrian/cycletrack from the bridge on the north side of the A228 to the gate, where it is intended to join the cycletrack into the new estate. From the estate you can still walk or cycle via the A228. There's a pavement for pedestrians but it's a horrible road to cycle.

Re: Glad They Got a Bike Lane

10 May 2015 - 7:03pm
gaz wrote:Philip Benstead wrote:Please explain what is going on here
A shared pedestrian and cycle path has been constructed as part of a housing development. The route is clearly in place as can be seen from the google satellite image.

There are various legal wranglings going on between the landowner, the developer and the council and until they are resolved the gate will remain locked.

It supposedly doubles up as an emergency access route to the Medway Gate site.

2004 planning approval can be found here, application MC2004/0063 (Cuxton Pit no 3, Cuxton Road, Strood).

Can cyclist and walkers still gain access to the bridge?

Re: Bus plus a bike?

10 May 2015 - 6:19pm
Go North East used to carry bikes along part of the Consett to Sunderland cycle way. You could put them in the wheel chair bay.

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