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Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

24 June 2015 - 3:15pm
So, one of the deaths in 2013 was actually a pedestrian at the time:

http://road.cc/content/news/155028-wido ... iver-found

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

24 June 2015 - 3:11pm
661-Pete wrote:With regard to cement mixers, there is the additional problem that they have to get to their destination and deliver their load before the cement sets. If it sets in the lorry, it's a nasty and time-consuming job cleaning it out. Hence there's an added incentive to make extra speed on the road. I've often felt a bit uneasy about this. Anyone in the construction business care to elaborate?
Not in the construction industry, but I was under the impression that they did clever things like regulate water in the mix to prevent that...

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

24 June 2015 - 2:31pm
You could wrap it up in fancy words and it may not be true but it is an obvious starting point and no answer anywhere near as convincing has been offered.

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

24 June 2015 - 2:26pm
It is a simple analysis ...

Tipper truck drivers are the bottom-feeders of the road haulage industry ... the cowboys of the road ... the ones most likely to take risks ... the most irresponsible.

Females are the most vulnerable group of cyclists.

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

24 June 2015 - 2:12pm
With regard to cement mixers, there is the additional problem that they have to get to their destination and deliver their load before the cement sets. If it sets in the lorry, it's a nasty and time-consuming job cleaning it out. Hence there's an added incentive to make extra speed on the road. I've often felt a bit uneasy about this. Anyone in the construction business care to elaborate?

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

24 June 2015 - 1:54pm
landsurfer wrote:I think the point I'm making , possibly badly, is that why do tipper trucks appear to be the problem. .

As suggested above, aren't many (all?) of them getting paid a set amount for each loaded trip? Thus encouraging a general haste in their journeys. I think this was discussed a few years ago with regards to a spate of cement mixer incidents.

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

24 June 2015 - 1:43pm
Tipper truck drivers do not get up in the morning, kiss the wife and kids goodbye and set off to kill female cyclists.

It appears that they dont also get up in the morning and then set off to give cyclists as much respect and room as possible whilst driving a big dangerous machine amongst them.
How do I know that is true? I think we all know how.

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

24 June 2015 - 1:36pm
I think the point I'm making , possibly badly, is that why do tipper trucks appear to be the problem.
Tipper truck drivers do not get up in the morning, kiss the wife and kids goodbye and set off to kill female cyclists.
How many of the fatalities this year have led to the conviction of a tipper truck driver ?
How many of these fatalities where caused by the vehicle turning left ?
How many of the cyclists where between the vehicle and kerb when the accident occurred.
All questions that need to be addressed before the blame game starts.

Re: Not even an 'are' you OK!

24 June 2015 - 1:28pm
Had three in the past few days. First was seeing a young woman on a cycle path hit by a post office van pulling out of a drive. She said she was OK and didn't need a witness so I carried on. Then there was the taxi driver that waved at me as he pulled out of a side road across me and the old lady who carried on pulling out across me looking at me with a look of absolute surprise on her face throughout.

Mad drivers and Englishmen me thinks.

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

24 June 2015 - 1:15pm
There must be a common thread

There is, that it is tipper/skip trucks doing it.

I think that these vehicles are being driven on piece rate contracts and the pressure is on the driver (directly or indirectly) to cut corners.
I also think that rather like the self employed courier trade, there is little direct employment going on with investigation of the drivers' past record or conduct. So drivers' ejected by the other fleets running different types of employment will take their bad habits with them.

Also they may have vehicle issues like lack of mirrors and sidebars.

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

24 June 2015 - 9:36am
landsurfer wrote:Would people stop blaming the drivers.
How do you know it was their fault.
You don't.
Blindly blaming the easiest target will not improve safety for anyone.
And yet tipper lorries are massively over represented. So either it's a statistical blip or something is going on.

If lorry drivers are anything like the bus drivers in Liverpool (Arriva in particular) then they're probably unaware that most of the vehicle is behind the cab. Twice in a mile yesterday I was forced to the kerb by buses overtaking.

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

24 June 2015 - 9:18am
In the absence of proper evidence Landsurfer is right. The driver may or may not have made a mistake. We don't know.

Yesterday, after reading about this sad case, I met a tipper lorry coming the other way whilst I was cycling along a narrow lane near Cardiff Airport. As it was easier for me to find a spot to tuck in close to the side I was ready to wave the driver through, but he pulled in at a wide bit, stopped and flashed me to come through. It made me think that it is wrong to talk about road user groups ("lorry drivers", "motorists", "cyclists") as if they are uniform blocks with no individuals. Each group has its good and its bad.

Having said that, I do agree that there is a problem with the interaction between cyclists and lorries in London, and the number of deaths must make it worth investing funds in a serious detailed study of what goes wrong and why.

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

24 June 2015 - 8:31am
Would people stop blaming the drivers.
How do you know it was their fault.
You don't.
Blindly blaming the easiest target will not improve safety for anyone.

Re: Not even an 'are' you OK!

24 June 2015 - 12:24am
In my recent accident the attending police officer explained that his job easn't to assign blame, but to gather evidence to decide if an offence might have been committed, check the roadworthiness of any vehicles involved, breathalyse the drivers etc.. The blame part of it is down to the insurance companies.

Then informed me that the driver of the offending vehicle would be recommended for prosecution

Re: Bus passes

24 June 2015 - 12:19am
Living in South Birmingham, my bus pass covers a lot of London Midland train routes (inc Wolverhampton, Coventry and almost to Lichfield!). So I can (and sometimes do) load the bike onto the train, got to e.g. a couple of stops short of Lichfield, and have a bit of a pedal around the countryside and back to the station. Or other routes as required.

But on the other hand where I might have rode into the city centre, I'll now hop on a train or bus to get there. Especially since being rammed, on my bike, by a ***** driving a trannie pickup!

Usually the train though, it's a one and a bit mile walk to the station rather than a couple of hundred yards to the bus sop!

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

23 June 2015 - 10:37pm
mjr wrote:Valbrona wrote:London needs a big-time Police offensive against tipper truck drivers. Any minor vehicle defect and they should be off the road.

http://pic.twitter.com/WKvNEw2wjq wrote:Of 4,000 commercial vehicles stopped over 3 months, prohibition notices against 50% of them https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/docum ... 150315.pdf


Also here: http://road.cc/content/news/154913-near ... comply-law

Dear Minister for Transport ... What on earth are you playing at with so many defective trucks on the UK's roads? Do something ...

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

23 June 2015 - 9:20pm
mjr wrote:toomsie wrote:I wonder if Boris bike are over represented regarding serious accidents. But in my experiance Boris bikes feel very safe so I assume that heavy ladies bike also do.
London cycle hire bikes were under represented in early road casualty figures, according to http://rdrf.org.uk/2012/08/disaster-wai ... part-four/ - and I'd expect them to have improved if anything, now that some of the early users have become experienced users.

While that certainly refutes the "disaster waiting to happen" argument and shows that riding hire bikes is indeed very safe, I'm not sure you can claim that they are safer than normal bikes. The comparisons are on a per trip basis and with the whole of London. Cycle hire trips tend to be short and are concentrated in the safer central zone so you would expect to see fewer crashes per trip.

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

23 June 2015 - 9:11pm
Which is what the report I quoted earlier in the thread discovered:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22931179

I think it is an education thing as women tend to ride more carefully in general (and have a correspondingly better overall safety record compared to men) so are likely to adjust their behaviour if they are made aware of the dangers of ovetaking on the wrong side.

Re: The Arrow ... my first Sportive.

23 June 2015 - 8:14pm
In the meantime. . We went to the Eroica. Had a great time. I rode the 30 mile event on Sunday. God it was hard. Uphill and uphill for an hour, then downhill for 4 minutes, then uphill again.
Best moments. . Chatting to Brian Robinson at Tideswell church, the wonderful spread at Eyem, finding out that the guy that collapsed on the climb out of Eyem was ok and the wonderful cheering and support from villagers and those at the Bakewell show ground as we got back.
Eroica Britannia . . Brilliant weekend.
Next target . . The Ripon Revolution.
Then . . The Suffolk Spinner.
She has bought me a new bike for my birthday on the back of all this, and a Garmin Edge.
RESULT . .

Re: another cyclist killed by a lorry in London

23 June 2015 - 7:34pm
Chatted with my sister on this topic just an hour ago. She drives and rides in cities and towns all over England and Northern Ireland . She was quite forthright on the subject. Women going up the left hand side of lorries and busses' while men wait behind them. She finds it frightening that women don't seem to have got the message. And yes, she was knocked off in Belfast doing the same thing 8 years ago. Minor injuries
Is this an education thing ?
Our heart goes out to family and friends of this poor lady.
This has to stop!

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