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Re: SUV/Lorry/BMW/Insert/delete as appropriate Driving Too C

25 March 2015 - 5:47pm
This is one of those endless debates which I only get involved in when I feel the need to do some taxi-driver style venting. We all think the world wants to hear the conclusions we've drawn from our anecdotal evidence, but we'd need something more objective to get either side to move their entrenched positions. So for now I'll just settle for hoping that some european-funded research body or desperate undergraduate decides to have a scratch around in this area.

Re: so when do the shorts come out?

25 March 2015 - 5:37pm
I changed the bike to summer tyres a few weeks ago and ditched the builder's fleece and the thermal(ish) long johns for under my shorts.

The summer tyres are still on the bike - though it did snow apparently during the day yesterday.

The long johns and fleece went back on after two or three days. The fleece was on because my arms were cold - felt like someone had poured boiling water over them. That's not too bad. The long johns were back on because my knees hurt, a deep pain. It didn't feel like a damaging type of pain - but I did wonder whether it was doing me any good - so the long johns are back for another few weeks at least. Actually, thinking about it - when I was on Earlies I wore my long johns going into work at 6 am and ditched them for the ride home at 3. I'm on Nights this week which is an 8:30 pm ride in and a 7 am ride home - so I've not thought twice about wearing warmer clothes.

I think that it's an age thing (for me). I never used to be affected by the cold but that seems to have changed over the last year or two.

Re: so when do the shorts come out?

25 March 2015 - 5:30pm
Still FAR too cold here.
I'm wearing sandals now instead of shoes in "normal" clothes, but shorts not until the weather is warm.

Although the sun is nice and warm, the wind is quite cold. I rode out yesterday and wished I'd worn gloves, so shorts wearing is a long way off yet.

Temp gets to about 9 or 10degC or perhaps 12degC ............... and with a damned chilly wind.

Re: Anyone not been hit by a car

25 March 2015 - 5:23pm
Touch wood i have not been hit by car despite riding a bike reguarly since i was 10 years old (over 25 years ago), even when i was a teenager i had a job delivering prescriptions to the elderly/disabled spending many dark winter nights on the road covering many miles per round, only run in i had was with a police car who told me to get on the kerb, can not win as i thought even as a teenager back then i should have been on the road, was very aggresive as he said "there is the kerb there now get on it". Have had a few close calls over the years but nothing to write home about.

Re: SUV/Lorry/BMW/Insert/delete as appropriate Driving Too C

25 March 2015 - 5:05pm
DevonDamo wrote:reohn2 wrote:You seem to be saying that I don't exercise a 'help-them-get-past' strategy

Nope - didn't want to set that hare running, so studiously avoided commenting on your riding choices and any reasons why mine may be different. I cited two diametrically-opposed approaches as an example of how riding decisions might be informed by this type of behavioural/psychological research.

Until you post some of your views/ideas what goes through drivers minds I fail to see how we can even begin sort out this thread
To clarify,my view is that the vast majority of motorist exercise caution and courtesy around cyclists,however a significant albeit small minority either don't know how to treat cyclists or don't care.
The former simply don't realise their effect on cyclists and vulnerable road users,the latter simply don't care,either way contact or a collision with a cyclist by either results to the same outcome,they remain safe,cyclist comes off worst to a lesser or greater degree and at worst ends up dead.
The only time I'm absolutely sure which is which is when and if get to have a word with them about the effect their bad driving is having on me,their response to informing them how close they were to me,is usually the give away .

My riding strategy is a simple one,keep safe by being prominent on the road(riding in secondary position) and when I consider the need for my safety to be increased,take the lane(ride in primary).Always indicate clearly my intentions when turning etc.
Trust no one,consider all other traffic on the road to be driven by madmen and lunatics who may do anything at any time,maintain the Boy Scout motto 'be prepared' (for anything).
Trust is a luxury I can't afford other road users.
The intentions of others I can't do much about,but I can influence their decisions by strategy.

Re: so when do the shorts come out?

25 March 2015 - 4:40pm
My shorts came out in February, but only for commuting.(People at work think I'm well 'ard ). Been a bit fresh around the knee department, mind, but that's only to be expected this time of year.

Re: SUV/Lorry/BMW/Insert/delete as appropriate Driving Too C

25 March 2015 - 4:30pm
reohn2 wrote:You seem to be saying that I don't exercise a 'help-them-get-past' strategy

Nope - didn't want to set that hare running, so studiously avoided commenting on your riding choices and any reasons why mine may be different. I cited two diametrically-opposed approaches as an example of how riding decisions might be informed by this type of behavioural/psychological research.

Re: SUV/Lorry/BMW/Insert/delete as appropriate Driving Too C

25 March 2015 - 4:15pm
DevonDamo wrote:I have my own theories, based on my own experience on the road, of what goes through other people's minds and how that translates into behaviour. We won't agree...

However, my point is this: with polarised issues such as this one, forum discussions produce more heat than light. Wouldn't it be nice to have some good quality, rigorous research which can actually tell you 'if you do x, then your chances of experiencing y increase/decrease by whatever percentage.' In other words, find out how the world is, rather than how the highway code states it ought to be. You're free to choose your approach, e.g. asserting your rights on the road versus 'help-them-get-past', but information of this type would help you decide your most effective strategy to stay out of harm's way.

I'm intrigued by the 'helmets incite closer overtakes' hypothesis, and surprised that psychological/behavioural issues of this type don't get much of a look-in when it comes to research. I believe them to be orders of magnitude more important to our safety on the road than the CE marking of pedal reflectors or whatever else the cycling safety budgets are spent on.

I agree. I often go on youtube to find some useful tips on cycling. But most of the time they emphasize the behaviour of the cager and less how to stay in one piece. I might create a video call "Road Coward". I will not confront drivers or remember his reg-number. I will instruct cyclist how to avoid having issues.

Re: so when do the shorts come out?

25 March 2015 - 3:08pm
I'm in winter gear until double digit temps. Was reading an article on this subject a few weeks ago about micro tearing of muscle if you get cold which could explain any little niggles. Can always do a quick strip at the tea shop if it gets warm mid-route.

Re: so when do the shorts come out?

25 March 2015 - 2:51pm
ChrisButch wrote:I was lectured very strictly about this by my father, who grew up in the club culture of the 1920s/30s. Shorts were never to be worn before May, because of the risk of muscle damage. Of course naming a date is arbitrary, because of the variability of the seasons: but I've always stuck with the principle, and I still wince when I see riders in shorts in the middle of winter (of whom there seem to be an increasing number).
I was also lectured on this by an old Belgian "roadie". Basically don't wear shorts unless it's over 20C. If the weather is very cold ( I usually work on 10C) wear long thermal underwear under the top layer. I think this was good advice in protecting the knees ( at least I've made it to my early 70's without any knee problems)

Re: SUV/Lorry/BMW/Insert/delete as appropriate Driving Too C

25 March 2015 - 2:39pm
pwa wrote:Reohn2

I ride assertively, as you describe it, controlling things when I need to. But my relatively few actual physical contacts with vehicles (2 in 45+ years on the road) have been due to dopey / inattentive driving rather than aggression. One vehicle was a van, the second a small hatchback driven by a very elderly man.

My only contact with another vehicle whilst cycling was a few weeks ago when a large VW peole carrier/SUV(?)overtook me and clipped my right hand with his wing mirror which left a bruise that I only noticed when I took my glove off at a cafe stop later on.
His reaction was to stick two fingers up to me after he passed by.He knew exactly what he was doing IMHO.

Re: SUV/Lorry/BMW/Insert/delete as appropriate Driving Too C

25 March 2015 - 2:32pm
Reohn2

I ride assertively, as you describe it, controlling things when I need to. But my relatively few actual physical contacts with vehicles (2 in 45+ years on the road) have been due to dopey / inattentive driving rather than aggression. One vehicle was a van, the second a small hatchback driven by a very elderly man.

Re: Grab Theft - handle bar kit

25 March 2015 - 2:29pm
So no none white people are more likely to get falsely arrested,convicted,beaten to death or shot in America!?
I guess some folks have not seen the news in the last century

Not just America. It happens here in England as well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YU6I4f3UaM



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/1 ... 24684.html

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... -race-data

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=relea ... 7Aa06IGQDg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R9pycMBezM

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/trayvon-martin

It's ok, because the President is mixed race

It's nice to live in a country where you are not profiled by your race let alone your sex.

Re: so when do the shorts come out?

25 March 2015 - 2:27pm
Spinners wrote:pete75 wrote:If you're a postman they never go away.....

What IS that all about?

apparently a nationwide phenomena.

Re: SUV/Lorry/BMW/Insert/delete as appropriate Driving Too C

25 March 2015 - 2:24pm
DevonDamo wrote:Above, Reohn describes a precautionary approach: assume the person behind will attempt a dangerous manoeuvre and take action to prevent that. I have a different approach - ride in such a way that signals I'm doing everything I can to let the following person get past.
Mine's one of ''I'm vulnerable because I'm not surrounded by a tin box and belted in with over 100HP under my right foot,so if it's not safe for ME for you to pass,I'll block your passage until I think it is''
It's termed as 'assertive riding' and I've practised it for a very long time.
I'm under the impression the overwhelming majority of drivers understand why I ride the way I do because it's logical and a common sense approach.
It's the significant minority split in two groups a)the stupid one's who can't read what's going on because either they're thick or are 'elsewhere'(more than likely using a mobile these days) or b) the 'horned ones',the aggressive drivers who take exception to anything and more so a cyclist,getting in their way,the people with an attitude that they are far more important than anyone else.
And more often than not think cyclists should either be off the roads entirely or should ride in the gutter out of their way.These people can become even more aggressive when encountering a group of cyclists.
The second group IME are more likely though not exclusively, to drive prestige or SUV type vehicles or are more likely have 'vanity' reg plates.

PS,yes I'm stereo typing but I'm afraid that is my experience over a long time driving and cycling,and I believe it's becoming worse.The UK's low and aggressive driving standards are never more apparent than after a period of driving and riding on the continent

Re: so when do the shorts come out?

25 March 2015 - 2:14pm
pete75 wrote:If you're a postman they never go away.....

What IS that all about?

Re: so when do the shorts come out?

25 March 2015 - 2:10pm
I was lectured very strictly about this by my father, who grew up in the club culture of the 1920s/30s. Shorts were never to be worn before May, because of the risk of muscle damage. Of course naming a date is arbitrary, because of the variability of the seasons: but I've always stuck with the principle, and I still wince when I see riders in shorts in the middle of winter (of whom there seem to be an increasing number).

Re: SUV/Lorry/BMW/Insert/delete as appropriate Driving Too C

25 March 2015 - 1:50pm
For me living rural l find it is HGV lorry's, they dont seem to want to lose any speed so take chances and then quickly have to pull back in to avoid a vehicle coming the opposite direction, they then force me hard into the curb, In general though l think its a problem with drivers not following the highway code, for me its a total mixture of vehicles, the most recent vehicles were a HGV, 620 rover, ice cream van and a fiesta with go faster stripes. When im driving l will not pass unless l can give the rider enough room that if they should fall l should still hopefully miss them.

Re: Grab Theft - handle bar kit

25 March 2015 - 12:54pm
Freddie, you do realise that a number of different people, not just Si, have responded to you don't you?

Ad hominem attacked do not add anything to the discussion... and climbing on your high horse doesn't really help with the discussion. Discussion by the way, not argument.

The persons accent may be appropriate for reporting to the police, as with all descriptions a number of people can fit so it gives another data point to allow narrowing down the suspect list (as would, for example, saying they had 1 leg), it's utterly pointless when attached to the original story. It implies a correlation between the crime being committed and the persons accent, whether intentional or not.

As has been pointed out there may be a number of reasons why some crimes are statistically more likely to hold some sub groups than other, and just saying that sub group is more likely to do those crimes is not a sound argument. As has been pointed out it could be bias in who is arrested, it could be bias based on financial aspects (rich people can afford better lawyers) it could be endemic racism in the court or jury system. just look at the number of black men in American prisons. It's not because black men in America are more likely to commit a crime, just that they are more likely to be charged, more likely to be found guilty, and more likely to be given longer sentences.

Re: Grab Theft - handle bar kit

25 March 2015 - 12:51pm
Si wrote:It may have been fairer to say "for specific crimes" however the point still stands. You are demonising a nationality based upon the acts of a few. You are suggesting that because a crime may have been committed by a member of one nationality we should be suspicious whenever we deal with any member of that nationality.No, the point does not stand. It is entirely a product of your imagination.

I am demonising a nationality, he says. Right then, quote the point where I have said all eastern Europeans do x, you cannot do it, as I have done no such thing. I suggest nothing, you are the one doing the suggesting and putting words in other peoples mouths. Who made you a moderator and on what basis?

If you cannot argue against points someone has actually made (this would require quotations), rather than putting words in others mouths, then I suggest you think carefully about the tenability of your position as a so called moderator.

Si wrote:We also have the issue with the police - are specific crimes really committed more by foreigners than natives,Yes to both. Si wrote:or are foreigners more often arrested/questioned for specific crimes than natives Perhaps, but that has little bearing on the preceding fact.Si wrote:or are certain crimes more often committed by certain socio-economic groups, which might have more recent immigrants within them? Are you saying the police don't keep records of a persons nationality (not true) or are you trying to say all poor people are likely to commit crime (a horrible slur on the poorer groups in society). Si wrote:We certainly know for a fact that institutional racism have been prevalent within the police (e.g. the Lawrence saga) in recent years. Indeed, only one word can be changed from your statement and it remain just as true:

We certainly know for a fact that institutional racism have been prevalent within the police (e.g. the Rochdale saga) in recent years.
Si wrote:I can see the point of the OP trying to warn people about a specific person committing crimes in a specific area (although I note others' comments regarding the lack of substantiation), but how and why this then needed to be expanded to the assertion that certain nationalities are responsible for certain types of crime in the manner that it has been is clearly the question that is leaving a sour taste. Well, oh dear, it leaves a sour taste. That is your issue, not mine. I brought it up as PH, rather absurdly, said that nationality was of no relevance whatsoever to likelyhood of a certain type of crime being committed in this country. The opposite is true, you just don't want to accept it likely because of some kind of cognitive dissonance. I'm afraid the evidence is weighted against you.Si wrote:The course manner in which it has been presented reflects that of those (with less honest intention) who would have us quivering in fear every time we hear a foreign accent or see and different shade of skin.Course!? What has been course about what I have said. I have discussed the criminal sections of certain nationalities and how they differ, there is nothing course about this, it is purely a matter of fact. Unlike the accusations from people in this thread that the British in general are feckless, lazy and bigoted and apt to make things up, all of which seem rather more course and untrue, yet you have no interest whatsoever in denouncing these actual generalisations, as opposed to the imagined ones you imagine have been put upon all foreigners by me. At least you no longer have to keep up a pretence of being fair and even handed. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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