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Re: Hit and Run - Cyclist Wanted !

11 September 2014 - 9:25am
reohn2 wrote:I've watched both videos a couple of times,what I'm puzzled about is the taxi stopping where he did ie;smack in the cycle lane .
It's a compulsory left turn only and on the approach there's no obstruction to the taxi's left that would make him move to the right of the lane(which is quite wide).The Transit van looks as if he's about to set off but is on the pavement so if he's entering the traffic flow the taxi should've stopped in lane behind him.
The cyclist can't be excused for scratching the taxi(if he did)but puzzlements of puzzlements,why did the taxi stop where he did?
What's more bizarre is the cyclist removing his bag from the bike and just walking off

I wonder if there's more to this incident than meets the eye

All very odd,or is this normal behaviour in London?

My guess would be that there is more to this than meets the eye.

Re: Hit and Run - Cyclist Wanted !

11 September 2014 - 9:03am
reohn2 wrote:I've watched both videos a couple of times,what I'm puzzled about is the taxi stopping where he did ie;smack in the cycle lane
Is the right answer: "because it's a taxi"?

I once saw a taxi stopped BEHIND the first stop line on an ASL - I was almost tempted to stop and congratulate him.
The bike lane next to Lime St station in Liverpool is used as parking for taxis - despite it being there for safety (road is one way but the lane provides a contraflow for cyclists to get to the station) and being behind a solid white line which means they shouldn't be able to cross it.

Re: Hit and Run - Cyclist Wanted !

11 September 2014 - 8:57am
The video only really hints at the circumstances, thus speculation and rumour prevail.

Here is my guess. . . . . . .

Cyclist approaches taxi and sees that the taxi has unnecessarily blocked the cycle lane.
He gets annoyed and tries to squeeze through the minimal gap.
At that very moment the taxi moves forwards slightly ( for no apparent reason, as the traffic light is still red ).
This causes some sort of minor collision.
Cyclist assumes that the taxi deliberately moved to block him - thus he blames the taxi driver for the incident.

The taxi itself is a major source of income for the driver. It is a precious asset.
It may be completely owned by the driver or under some sort of finance agreement ( that may require it to be kept in tip-top condition ).

Re: Hit and Run - Cyclist Wanted !

11 September 2014 - 8:32am
I've watched both videos a couple of times,what I'm puzzled about is the taxi stopping where he did ie;smack in the cycle lane .
It's a compulsory left turn only and on the approach there's no obstruction to the taxi's left that would make him move to the right of the lane(which is quite wide).The Transit van looks as if he's about to set off but is on the pavement so if he's entering the traffic flow the taxi should've stopped in lane behind him.
The cyclist can't be excused for scratching the taxi(if he did)but puzzlements of puzzlements,why did the taxi stop where he did?
What's more bizarre is the cyclist removing his bag from the bike and just walking off

I wonder if there's more to this incident than meets the eye

All very odd,or is this normal behaviour in London?

Re: First Audax

11 September 2014 - 7:58am
Hi,
eileithyia wrote:And follow your own route even if you are in a group that appear to be able to read their route sheets, unless of course I am on the front reading the route sheet this is important for various reasons, if they drop you you need to be able to pick up fairly quickly where you are on the route sheet, it helps to teach you how to read a start sheet, those on the front may not actually be that good at reading their sheet.
+1 Very common, the big heads like to lead the sheep...do your own thing....where does it say TEAM.............

Re: Another A38 Accident

11 September 2014 - 7:42am
We must differentiate the A38 generally from the Devon Expressway between Exeter and Marsh Mills Plymouth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A38_road
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A38_road#Devon

I've cycled vast lengths of the A38, here in Cornwall and up to Glouscester, plus in the Midlands.
Also, I've ridden the length of Plymouth Parkway.

Re: Another A38 Accident

11 September 2014 - 7:35am
BeeKeeper wrote:Edit: Just selected several other counting points at random in Devon and looked at the ratios. The problem seems to be the counting points are all main roads so in one sense not much difference between them but the second in the list (6407) gives a bike to vehicle ratio of approaching 1:100 which is more what I might expect for an urban situation but many of the others are around the 1:1000 recorded on the A38.

Not sure where this is leading, only I won't be cycling on the A38 any time soon.

I would expect an urban level generally of around 1-2% of journeys but am surprised that its even as high as 0.1% outside considering the number of cyclists I see when out in the country vs town.

I won't be cycling on the A38 any time soon either but only because I'm not likely to be in that area any time soon. It may be very unpleasant to cycle but I really do doubt its dangerous based on a single anecdote.

Re: Hit and Run - Cyclist Wanted !

11 September 2014 - 7:29am
If the cyclist said, "Sorry" and was genuinely sorry, that would have been the end of it.
The police could have been called, but not for the scratch/incident, but because of the resulting fracas and the anger of the taxi driver deliberately blocking the road. If the police were interested at all it would be because of the taxi driver's attitude and actions.

Even if the cyclist was sorry, there's no way that he could be obliged to pay anything. Morally, maybe, but what happens if he has no money to pay?

I'm afraid that the taxi driver doesn't have a leg to stand on and should realise it's a jungle out there on the streets. Hard luck if your precious car gets scratched, if you are that pernickety about a pristine car, you shouldn't be taking it into the "jungle".

Re: First Audax

11 September 2014 - 7:19am
Make sure you have some sort of route sheet holder (purchased or home made) so that you can read the route sheet from your normal cycling position.
Make sure the sheet is protected against rain - I use an A4 plastic envelope so that the sheet can be folded to show the relevant section.
More recently I've had sheets laminated which enables them to be cut into suitable sections.
I've seen people new to audax trying to read a route sheet held in one hand and navigate at the same time (this can be a particularly disappointing experience if the sheet is slowly dissolving due to heavy rain ).

Re: First Audax

11 September 2014 - 7:19am
And follow your own route even if you are in a group that appear to be able to read their route sheets, unless of course I am on the front reading the route sheet this is important for various reasons, if they drop you you need to be able to pick up fairly quickly where you are on the route sheet, it helps to teach you how to read a start sheet, those on the front may not actually be that good at reading their sheet.
Well remember being at the back of a group with a friend of mine, those on front approached a junction, all grabbed their route sheets hastily from pockets, turned left as we smugly turned right.... Grat way to get to the front and be first in the cafe control lol.

Re: Hit and Run - Cyclist Wanted !

10 September 2014 - 11:18pm
To be fair to the OP we have no reason to suspect the cyclist didn't scrape his taxi.

I think he did quite well out of the incident. I wish I was given a perfectly serviceable bike for every scratch I've had on cars over the years.

The cyclist was clearly wrong to hit the car and it was almost certainly careless cycling. However, if the police actually do something about that when they routinely fail to do so about genuinely dangerous driving for which far better camera footage exists then I think it is disproportionate. Yes, the cyclist should have offered to pay for any damage he caused but this really is a trifling little incident and investigating it would be a waste of the police's time and limited resources

Re: First Audax

10 September 2014 - 9:41pm
Thanks for the tips, I'll try following the typed sheet and have the maps in a pocket. I'm looking forward to it

Here 's a link to the ride, it's the National Forest 50km;

http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/14-486/

Thanks
Andrew

Re: Hit and Run - Cyclist Wanted !

10 September 2014 - 9:30pm
beardy wrote:He has posted the lead up to the incident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YEhEc4u ... e=youtu.be
Well there's a few minutes of my life I'll never get back. Adds nothing to suggest if/who caused what/anything/etc.

Ian

Re: First Audax

10 September 2014 - 9:26pm
I just follow the route sheet, and keep maps in my bag to be referred to only if there is something I am unsure about.

Re: Hit and Run - Cyclist Wanted !

10 September 2014 - 9:24pm
He has posted the lead up to the incident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YEhEc4u ... e=youtu.be

Re: Hit and Run - Cyclist Wanted !

10 September 2014 - 9:02pm
Bicycler wrote:kwackers wrote:Psamathe wrote:And in the video it looks like the cyclist is tugging at his bike like the cab driver is holding on to it. So, ignoring the moral aspect (and assuming the "not legally obliged to exchange contact details" is correct), then the cabbie is in effect illegally detaining the cyclist.
Ah, that would explain it. I couldn't figure out what was going on! I'd be interested in knowing how the driver could prove the damage occurred earlier and not whilst trying to detain the cyclist. (It can't be easy hanging onto a bicycle like that and not sustaining paint damage).
or it could have occurred at the time that the car moved 25 secs in
That is assuming it didn't happen earlier that day/earlier in the week/earlier in the month/etc.

Ian

Re: Another A38 Accident

10 September 2014 - 9:02pm
BeeKeeper wrote:Edit: Just selected several other counting points at random in Devon and looked at the ratios. The problem seems to be the counting points are all main roads so in one sense not much difference between them but the second in the list (6407) gives a bike to vehicle ratio of approaching 1:100 which is more what I might expect for an urban situation but many of the others are around the 1:1000 recorded on the A38.
That's just one problem with that dataset. For example, I seem to remember that if you're on a cycleway rather than an all-traffic lane, then you don't get counted, whereas you would be recorded as on that road if you had a collision, both onhttp://road-collisions.dft.gov.uk/collision-map/ and similar sources, which would inflate any estimate of risk.

For a stretch with no cycle facilities, like the bit of the A38 in this topic AFAIK, it's not awful, though.

Re: Hit and Run - Cyclist Wanted !

10 September 2014 - 8:26pm
kwackers wrote:Psamathe wrote:And in the video it looks like the cyclist is tugging at his bike like the cab driver is holding on to it. So, ignoring the moral aspect (and assuming the "not legally obliged to exchange contact details" is correct), then the cabbie is in effect illegally detaining the cyclist.
Ah, that would explain it. I couldn't figure out what was going on! I'd be interested in knowing how the driver could prove the damage occurred earlier and not whilst trying to detain the cyclist. (It can't be easy hanging onto a bicycle like that and not sustaining paint damage).
or it could have occurred at the time that the car moved 25 secs in

Re: Hit and Run - Cyclist Wanted !

10 September 2014 - 8:20pm
Psamathe wrote:And in the video it looks like the cyclist is tugging at his bike like the cab driver is holding on to it. So, ignoring the moral aspect (and assuming the "not legally obliged to exchange contact details" is correct), then the cabbie is in effect illegally detaining the cyclist.
Ah, that would explain it. I couldn't figure out what was going on! I'd be interested in knowing how the driver could prove the damage occurred earlier and not whilst trying to detain the cyclist. (It can't be easy hanging onto a bicycle like that and not sustaining paint damage).

Re: Another A38 Accident

10 September 2014 - 8:04pm
mjr wrote:So look it up on http://www.dft.gov.uk/traffic-counts/ and then say what you think?
Fascinating link. Many thanks.

There is a "count point" very close to the recent tragedy (56413). From the download there were, for 2013, the most recent figure 49 pedal cycles with a total for all traffic of nearly 49,000. I am not sure over what period this count was made but at a ratio of 1 push bike to a thousand vehicles this suggests to me what I already suspected, this is a road not often used by cyclists and therefore the total number of serious accidents and fatalities does not give a true picture of the risk of cycling along this road.

I am probably not interpreting this data correctly so if someone who is more familiar with it can do I would be interested.

Given this data is all in a computer somewhere it would hardly be rocket science for the same people who publish it to produce a map showing which roads are the greatest risk. But as a cynic they probably wouldn't want to draw attention this way.

Edit: Just selected several other counting points at random in Devon and looked at the ratios. The problem seems to be the counting points are all main roads so in one sense not much difference between them but the second in the list (6407) gives a bike to vehicle ratio of approaching 1:100 which is more what I might expect for an urban situation but many of the others are around the 1:1000 recorded on the A38.

Not sure where this is leading, only I won't be cycling on the A38 any time soon.

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