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Updated: 1 hour 31 min ago

Re: Feeling a bit lonely......

18 December 2014 - 6:46pm
It's human nature, get over it. We acknowledge those we see as being similar. Maybe you see everyone in the universe as being similar, though if you go round waving at them all you will at best get some odd looks. Maybe you just see cyclists as being similar, maybe the road club just see other road groups as being similar, people will decide for themselves. On my 30 min morning commute I often cross paths with a couple of dozen cyclists, I'd look like a nodding dog to greet them all. Out on a leisurely Sunday run, I'll probably give a greeting to all other cyclists I come across, out enjoying the same thing as me, it's up to them if they respond.

Re: Feeling a bit lonely......

18 December 2014 - 6:31pm
RodWatts wrote:There was a time, and there still is, when most people out on the road would give each other a cheery wave. If you were overtaking someone or v.v you'd pass the time of day, where are you going, how far, have a little boasting, etc. even ride together for a few miles having a chat about life, the universe and everything. That's what makes cycling so good!
Today a group of 10-12 London Dynamo riders glided (?) past me , eyes straight ahead, not a word. How sad is that.
I'll be out there again tomorrow so give me a wave or at least a shy smile.....
Rod

Re: Feeling a bit lonely......

18 December 2014 - 6:21pm
I always find it sad that when there's no one else about two people can't exchange knowledge of each other existence.
It's a sign of a poor society IMHO.

Feeling a bit lonely......

18 December 2014 - 6:00pm
There was a time, and there still is, when most people out on the road would give each other a cheery wave. If you were overtaking someone or v.v you'd pass the time of day, where are you going, how far, have a little boasting, etc. even ride together for a few miles having a chat about life, the universe and everything. That's what makes cycling so good!
Today a group of 10-12 London Dynamo riders glided (?) past me , eyes straight ahead, not a word. How sad is that.
I'll be out there again tomorrow so give me a wave or at least a shy smile.....
Rod

Re: proviz victim blaming advert

18 December 2014 - 5:20pm
GrumpyGit wrote:redfacedbaldfatman wrote:How about this video from Wowow... "sorry I didn't see you". They claim in the video description that "You will be seen with the 3M Spoke Reflectors!"
I found it quite distasteful.

I've actually got those spoke reflectors on my hybrid just because I like the way the whole wheel disc lights up when it's spinning!

I prefer them to those little reflectors that clip between two spokes.

I have them too and I think they're brilliant! (but I didn't like the promotional video with the bent wheel and careless driver)
I've jutst bought another set because the ones on the rear are quite dirty and it's not coming off easily. Might swap them over and pop the dirty ones in the dishwasher.

Re: proviz victim blaming advert

18 December 2014 - 4:39pm
redfacedbaldfatman wrote:How about this video from Wowow... "sorry I didn't see you". They claim in the video description that "You will be seen with the 3M Spoke Reflectors!"
I found it quite distasteful.

I've actually got those spoke reflectors on my hybrid just because I like the way the whole wheel disc lights up when it's spinning!

I prefer them to those little reflectors that clip between two spokes.

Re: proviz victim blaming advert

18 December 2014 - 4:34pm
I wasnt embarrassed because you pointed it out, I was embarrassed for having been gullible enough to think this was some new fangled invention.

So apart from the advertising being misleading and the fact that retro reflectives have their limits, I quite fancy one for activities where you are not sweating, like on a motorcycle. Though I do have an old hi-viz jacket with about half that amount of reflective on already.

Re: proviz victim blaming advert

18 December 2014 - 4:27pm
beardy wrote: ... I was fooled for a while.

I'm very sorry if it came across that I was criticising you, when my target was the advertiser.

I was trying to say that the way you were deceived might easily apply to others, who might assume that that jacket could be seen without a light shining on it. I was questioning the good faith of the advertiser, not yours. In fact, I'm saying that I doubt that this was not intended by the advertiser. They knew full well what they were doing.

The embarrassment is all mine.

Re: Bike lift...

18 December 2014 - 4:20pm
manybikes wrote:Just imagine the health & safety brigade in UK. Could never happen here because cars would be parked on it

You took the words right out of my mouth! Nice idea though, I could think of a few locations for one round here. Highgate Hill, Crouch Hill and Muswell Hill for starters. I find good brakes are essential for descending any of those three.

Re: proviz victim blaming advert

18 December 2014 - 4:19pm
thirdcrank wrote:beardy wrote: ... it acts in the video as if it is an actual light source, I was thinking "wow what a jacket" until other peoples' posts made me realise it is only reflective and not what it appears to be in the advert.

Yes. That sums it up for me. From the still shots, this looks like an effective reflecting jacket but anybody watching the vid might easily be deceived into believing it would light up in total darkness. This means that the vid might deceive the unwary into believing that they would be visible to a driver whose headlights were not shining directly on them: eg the situation when a driver is waiting to emerge from a side road and their headlights are shining across the road they are waiting to enter or cross, rather than at any cyclist approaching on that main road. The benefits of reflective clothing are controversial but there can be nobody who sincerely believes that it works in the absence of light to reflect. It may well be that the rider in the vid would benefit from a brighter front lamp, especially in in a line of cars with bright headlamps on, but a reflective jacket is no substitute.

Another thing that I don't think anybody has commented on is the importance of a very acute angle of reflection. While a relatively high up reflector, eg at the rider's torso level, will be clearly visible at some distance, the nearer the vehicle is to the rider, the less the reflective effect until it is lost completely. This is why reflective bands around the rider's ankles or reflectors on shoes or pedals are so effective: at close quarters the angle of reflection is still very acute. A jacket is less prone to getting mucky than the lower trouser legs, but that's where this material might be most effective.

I was fooled for a while.

Re: proviz victim blaming advert

18 December 2014 - 4:02pm
beardy wrote: ... it acts in the video as if it is an actual light source, I was thinking "wow what a jacket" until other peoples' posts made me realise it is only reflective and not what it appears to be in the advert.

Yes. That sums it up for me. From the still shots, this looks like an effective reflecting jacket but anybody watching the vid might easily be deceived into believing it would light up in total darkness. This means that the vid might deceive the unwary into believing that they would be visible to a driver whose headlights were not shining directly on them: eg the situation when a driver is waiting to emerge from a side road and their headlights are shining across the road they are waiting to enter or cross, rather than at any cyclist approaching on that main road. The benefits of reflective clothing are controversial but there can be nobody who sincerely believes that it works in the absence of light to reflect. It may well be that the rider in the vid would benefit from a brighter front lamp, especially in in a line of cars with bright headlamps on, but a reflective jacket is no substitute.

Another thing that I don't think anybody has commented on is the importance of a very acute angle of reflection. While a relatively high up reflector, eg at the rider's torso level, will be clearly visible at some distance, the nearer the vehicle is to the rider, the less the reflective effect until it is lost completely. This is why reflective bands around the rider's ankles or reflectors on shoes or pedals are so effective: at close quarters the angle of reflection is still very acute. A jacket is less prone to getting mucky than the lower trouser legs, but that's where this material might be most effective.

Re: proviz victim blaming advert

18 December 2014 - 2:58pm
beardy wrote:The ProViz jacket should get ASA on its case if it is only retro-reflective as it acts in the video as if it is an actual light source, I was thinking "wow what a jacket" until other peoples' posts made me realise it is only reflective and not what it appears to be in the advert.


It does appear to be good... there are a couple of other videos, like this one below
Video description is: "This is a safety announcement, wearing this jacket may seriously damage a drivers vision, I have been told it needs a dip switch"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkSHWH-zkRc

This guy in USA is showing a similar jacket made by Nike for the Olympic team, it looks awesome!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFWXzz4j4I8

Breathability worries me about the Proviz jacket, it has vents, but is made mostly of plasticy material which will not be breathable in any way. OK for a dog walk I suppose but I'd sweat buckets on the bike.

Re: proviz victim blaming advert

18 December 2014 - 2:47pm
Odd as it is a German advert and the bikes would have had to have a side reflector by law.

Normally this is that reflective bands that you get on tyres or spoke reflectors.

The ProViz jacket should get ASA on its case if it is only retro-reflective as it acts in the video as if it is an actual light source, I was thinking "wow what a jacket" until other peoples' posts made me realise it is only reflective and not what it appears to be in the advert.

Re: proviz victim blaming advert

18 December 2014 - 2:40pm
How about this video from Wowow... "sorry I didn't see you". They claim in the video description that "You will be seen with the 3M Spoke Reflectors!"
I found it quite distasteful.

Re: proviz victim blaming advert

18 December 2014 - 2:19pm
And having now viewed the video - it's also not showing the view from any single one of the people who are posing a danger to the cyclist...

Presumably because when you get tboned you weren't in the headlight beam and therefore no amount of retro-reflective material will do any good.

Re: proviz victim blaming advert

18 December 2014 - 1:50pm
Tonyf33 wrote:It looked like they surpressed the cyclists rear light on the video (& the dark jacket) because it was terribly feint and enhanced the 'glow' on the jacket. I might report it to the ASA for false representation as it has clearly being altered to suit their agenda and clearly won't glow like that in any environ short of a direct all around beam of light projected on it..which a car headlights won't..
Absolutely disgraceful

If you look at it closely its clear that any difference is down to video post processing not actual real life differences. Because you can flip between the on-off with complete continuity its clearly one video, not two videos merged.

Re: proviz victim blaming advert

18 December 2014 - 10:54am
This is almost worth a complaint to the ASA

The advert is misleading, makes unsubstantiated claims and misrepresent the abilities of the product

Re: proviz victim blaming advert

18 December 2014 - 10:51am
That was my first thought as well. Watching it again it looks like they've gone for a trendy desaturated look, which limits the colour gamut as the red is very weak throughout the video.

Re: proviz victim blaming advert

18 December 2014 - 9:45am
It looked like they surpressed the cyclists rear light on the video (& the dark jacket) because it was terribly feint and enhanced the 'glow' on the jacket. I might report it to the ASA for false representation as it has clearly being altered to suit their agenda and clearly won't glow like that in any environ short of a direct all around beam of light projected on it..which a car headlights won't..
Absolutely disgraceful

Re: proviz victim blaming advert

17 December 2014 - 9:52pm
I was like the people who stop and tell me that I'm invisible. They normally get very confused when I ask who they are talking to...

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