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Updated: 2 hours 4 min ago

Re: Wearing earphones

22 July 2014 - 1:38pm
Wind the clock back 70 years and pretty much the only music available was live music.

Nowadays anyone who questions the use of personal entertainment systems in any scenario is regarded as odd and out of step, but frankly to remove one sense and then go out into a world full of hazards is asking for trouble. So, yes it's a factor that should be taken into account when assessing blame. The example you quote does seem a bit odd however since the victim was on a machine that was itself noisier than the car behind, I doubt he could hear the car coming even if he wasn't wearing the Walkman.

But in answer to the central question, wearing headphones whilst riding a bicycle, if you do this you're halfway to membership of the Darwin club. The attitude of the driver approaching unseen can be read by the noise of the engine and the rate at which it's getting louder, all clues to staying alive on a bike. Actually even the fact that there is a vehicle in the vicinity is important information that helps us avoid an accident.

As for the 'well I've got music in the car' argument, my car is so isolated from the outside world that mirrors are essential, as is using them, I rarely hear any other traffic.

Re: Wearing earphones

22 July 2014 - 1:18pm
Insurance companies will try and claim almost anything as contributory negligence (lack of helmet/ hi-vis/ lighting and reflector irregularities...). From what I've heard they don't like taking such cases to court for fear that a precedent may be set in the claimant's favour. Most people settle before court though.

FWIW, I can both see the benefit of using hearing in addition to observation and also the risk of relying on it instead of adequate observation. After a while on quiet roads I find myself getting lazy and not looking round very frequently because I can hear things coming. Personally I believe that all (non-deaf) road users should be able to hear a car's horn and shouldn't be distracted by loud music. However, we don't apply that rule to drivers and I can't see why it would be more important for the less dangerous road users.

Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

22 July 2014 - 12:11pm
mrjemm wrote:Sounds like you're arguing that because someone in hi-vis can be seen by a motorist, he'll get less space... despite making little sense to me, I think I'll stick to wearing hi-vis when I deem it suitable (i.e. when I remember or can be bothered); I'd rather be seen than not.
Which is fine except 1. the important thing is contrast not fluorescence (ride among the yellow sunflowers and other crops here while wearing yellow and you're not going to be seen); and 2. by visibly endorsing the idea that special clothes are helpful/safer for ordinary cycling you are helping to deter people from riding if they haven't spent money on the special gear.

Those two reasons combined with some informal testing of rides with/without hi-vis and counting the close passes (no significant effect, FWIW); and the general faff of remembering/carrying special clothes mean I put more reflective (which does seem to work, especially in low-light) tape on my bikes (because I forget the bike when riding) but rarely wear fluo any more.

Also, there was a small but not statistically significant reduction in the amount of verbal/horn abuse from other road users when not wearing hi-vis and helmet. Make of that what you will, but Ian Walker's research is probably more reliable than my counts.

Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

22 July 2014 - 11:33am
honesty wrote: The school took a class of pupils across the path into the play area, and all of them were wearing hi vis tabards. they then proceeded to play in the tabards...

I was in the park yesterday and there school doing some end-of-term park trip. Their whole school-full of children were each wearing hi-viz bibs in the middle of the park. It was a sea of fluorescence.

Re: Cyclsit just fails to get Darwin award

22 July 2014 - 11:15am
Posts about the religion of the blogger and ensuing discussion have been removed.

Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

22 July 2014 - 10:45am
Makes for easy identification of kids who walk away with adults.

Re: E petition surfacing redressing

22 July 2014 - 10:42am
Organise a mass "walk" round their carpark at going home time.

Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

22 July 2014 - 9:39am
The best (worst?) use of hi vis tabards has to be one I have seen recently. In Taunton there is a primary school on the edge of a park. There is a cycle lane / path running along one boarder of the school which the school has a gate out onto. Directly opposite this gate is a play are - climbing frame, swings, that sort of thing. The school took a class of pupils across the path into the play area, and all of them were wearing hi vis tabards. they then proceeded to play in the tabards...

Re: Cyclsit just fails to get Darwin award

22 July 2014 - 9:36am
fossala wrote:Flinders wrote:mike_dowler wrote:I see little there to joke about. A little humility might not go amiss.


Agreed. He also claims to be a Christian. It isn't the sort of thing my Christan friends would write.
Being religious mean sod all other than you have a make believe friend. I wish people would stop attributing it to being a good moral person. I would even go as far as saying that the Christian religion has the scope to make you less moral because as long as you repent all is good and dandy /rant.

I'm not sure why your singling out Christians

Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

22 July 2014 - 9:34am
broadway wrote:Or the logic of a high viz jacket with a black backpack which I saw earlier this week on a warm morning last week.

Still works from the front and sides.

Re: Cyclsit just fails to get Darwin award

22 July 2014 - 9:33am
Maybe worth noting that I consider Garstang home of some of the worst driving in existance, this junction being one of the worst spots for it- A6; busy road. Garstang; full of elderly with money (which appears to result in a huge self belief of entitlement and big cars); DIY/Trade store facing photographer (right of pic= trucks and white vans), and worst of all, a big Booths (Waitrose of the North) up the lane the blogger's snapping from; many folk I suspect shouldn't be driving any more in powerful cars, distracted by the purchase of some wonderfully firm comte and £2 off a bottle of that Prossecco recommended by Jilly Goulding... Go check the parking at that supermarket; it has to be the world's worst.

Re: Cyclsit just fails to get Darwin award

22 July 2014 - 9:30am
Being religious mean sod all other than you have a make believe friend

No it means that you have a make believe friend who sees everything you do and has promised great delights if you are good and burning in hell if you are bad.

Despite that I am still surprised when I see any Christian behaviour from the more "establishment" church goers where it is really more of a social thing than a religious thing.

Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

22 July 2014 - 9:19am
Or the logic of a high viz jacket with a black backpack which I saw earlier this week on a warm morning last week.

Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

22 July 2014 - 9:19am
Freddie wrote:I fear that all this hi viz will have the opposite effect of what we need as cyclists. It'll mark us out in the road and give aggressive and negligent drivers an opportunity to pass even closer than usual, as they can see us too well (if they were less sure, they may pass with more space). A few years and some SMIDSYs involving non hi viz wearers later and some "well meaning" parliamentarian will raise the question of whether hi viz should be made compulsory for cyclists.

If you cannot see a cyclist in broad daylight, then your eyes are deficient and you should not be driving a car in the first place.

Sounds like you're arguing that because someone in hi-vis can be seen by a motorist, he'll get less space... despite making little sense to me, I think I'll stick to wearing hi-vis when I deem it suitable (i.e. when I remember or can be bothered); I'd rather be seen than not.

And before someone comes up with the old chestnut of Blah blah blah, let me point out that a bib is not exactly my entire attire- I do tend to wear something covering my not inconsiderate backside; I am yet to see someone who is entirely clad toenails to tonsure in day-glo, and I am yet to find a ride where I am silhouetted against one consistent background colour.

Unfortunately, the roads are full of prats who don't see because they don't look. Don't pay attention. Don't remain on the same plain of existence when driving. And simply don't care. And of course some have such magnificent eyesight that they deem headlights unnecessary in poor visibility conditions. Whether someone should not be driving is totally irrelevant as long as they still are, and oh my, they still are.

Re: E petition surfacing redressing

22 July 2014 - 8:43am
Our roads here are getting to be awful. A 'namless person in the council' told a friend of mine that they are now so behind with repairs that they are only doing the urgent ones, and the budget doesn't stretch to do even those properly, so they have to patch them knowing the patches will disintegrate and need doing again. It's madness, it doesn't even make financial sense.

Also, we have a tarmac pavement here that is in an appalling state. The elderly or infirm in the village are virtually trapped in their houses when it's wet or icy- they can't get to the bus stop even to get to the shops. We've been complaining about it to the council for years now, as has the Parish Council, and it's got worse and worse- you couldn't get a wheelchair or pram over it unless you were pretty fit and strong.
The council won't do anything, they say it isn't a priority. We've asked them to come and actually look at it. They have refused. We ask how they can know it isn't a priority if they won't come and look at it. They won't answer. We asked why they surface dressed several short dead-end roads here which were in pretty much perfect condition (mystifying the residents). They say they won't tell us. We ask what the priority jobs are. They refuse to tell us.

But hey, they've cut 2% off the rates, and they're celebrating how well they are running everything.

Re: Cyclsit just fails to get Darwin award

22 July 2014 - 8:39am
Flinders wrote:mike_dowler wrote:I see little there to joke about. A little humility might not go amiss.


Agreed. He also claims to be a Christian. It isn't the sort of thing my Christan friends would write.
Being religious mean sod all other than you have a make believe friend. I wish people would stop attributing it to being a good moral person. I would even go as far as saying that the Christian religion has the scope to make you less moral because as long as you repent all is good and dandy /rant.

Re: Cyclsit just fails to get Darwin award

22 July 2014 - 8:35am
Flinders wrote:Agreed. He also claims to be a Christian. It isn't the sort of thing my Christan friends would write.
Do Christians believe in the Darwin Awards?

Re: Cyclsit just fails to get Darwin award

22 July 2014 - 3:08am
mike_dowler wrote:I see little there to joke about. A little humility might not go amiss.
+1

Re: Cyclsit just fails to get Darwin award

22 July 2014 - 1:41am
There but for the grace of god go I. The writer of that blog is clearly more experienced at "cycling" than me. They clearly have an ability to sit in judgement of others.

Who would I nominate for a "darwin award"? Myself.

6 months ago I battled through strong headwinds (20+mph)with 4 panniers+tent from boston across the fens past cambridge, and down to london. Not realising how exhausted I was I got to somewhere near Aldgate, and rode straight across a busy junction(multiple lane signals) through a red light (i thought it was green). Only to be woken up half way across by a black cab crossing the junction under a green calling me a b***** idiot. Marginal Fail.

2 points to this story. 1 I learnt to always rest for a long snack before entering cities. 2 Im human, I make mistakes, my risk management got away from me inevitably.

Does this make me a bad cyclist? Ive no idea. What I do know is using the term "darwin award" is usually insulting, and too simplistic. I wish I had the skill, and abilities of that blogger at all times so I never made mistakes. Actually no I dont,how would I learn, and improve?

Re: E petition surfacing redressing

21 July 2014 - 11:17pm
pete75 wrote:[XAP]Bob wrote:
I might go and sweep up a local road and return all the gravel to the reception desk of the council.

Yeah like the girls on the reception desk are responsible for the problem.................
No, they aren't - but the local papers like a goog photo op - and that might get noticed.

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