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Updated: 12 min 37 sec ago

Re: fewer motorists fined for mobile use

17 April 2015 - 5:58pm
iviehoff wrote:TrevA wrote:But you still see plenty of people doing it.
It depends what you mean by plenty. Plenty could still be a lot less than before. Some car drivers seem to see a lot of cyclists misbehaving on the roads. It sticks in their minds, while they overlook the compliant majority.
By my observations 10%+ generally,but on the motorway with a tailback,not necessarily going slowly,that goes up to 20%+.

There's still plenty of drink driving. But prosecuting it has at least succeeded in making it a lot less common, and that is generally seen as the reason for fewer DUI convictions these days. With it now being well understood from prominent national news stories that if you are involved in a collision, and they can find you were doing something with your phone at the time, as is apparently fairly easy to show, they'll throw the book at you, has the attitude towards phone use while driving started to head in the same direction as drink driving? So - is it caught less often because there is less of it?
IMO DD is far more prevalent than is apparent,police only catch DDers when they're involved in an RTI or something is very obvious in their driving.
Mobile use at the wheel,is very obvious but conviction rates are poor.
Like this one:- http://www.ctc.org.uk/news/20150327-inc ... ty-justice
The reason?
There aren't enough police doing the prevention job,because they're undermanned,with low morale and too busy chasing the next job,leaving little time to notice what's going on under their noses.
And because the justice system in the UK is a diabolical sham.

Re: Disappointing For Cyclists in Radstock

17 April 2015 - 5:49pm
Whatever happened to "cycle proofing" of new schemes?
The aim of the £1m scheme is to ease congestion, better define the town centre and assist in the building of hundreds of new homes. Hundreds of new homes=hundreds more cars, so will congestion be "eased" - whatever that means? Or is this the usual rubbish spouted by councillors. £1 million doesn't seem much to spend on a road scheme that's supposed to ease congestion, but then I don't know the area.

Re: fewer motorists fined for mobile use

17 April 2015 - 5:48pm
All that these numbers show is a record of police activity. (And not a particularly scientific one.) A substantial chunk of alleged offenders have been offered the alternative of attending some sort of course on road safety. The big advantage for alleged offenders is that that route avoids a licence endorsement.

If there are data available on the extent of people illegally using a phone while driving eg by some sort of roadside observation-based surveys, then they are not in the link.

My own totally unscientific observation - including nearly being wiped out earlier today by a WVM whose entire attention was on something in his lap, possibly a phone, possibly his lunch, possibly his lunchbox - is that using a phone at the wheel is widespread and largely unaffected by the small amount of priority attached to this by the police. It's hard to know what people really think when they talk about something but I suspect that while many people might say this was obviously wrong, they would also accept it as a normal part of driving. There are, of course, doubts about whether handsfree phoning is any safer than handheld, but the former is not, in itself an offence, although it may amount to careless driving etc. There doesn't seem to be any big push towards the installation of handsfree kit.

The only certainty, IMO, is that no mainstream politician sees any mileage in the enforcement of driving offences.
===================================
Other posts while I've been typing. The suggestion that mobile phone use prior to a crash will lead almost inevitably to prosecution is simply wrong. Only a tiny fraction of all crashes is subject to any sort of investigation and drivers know this.

Re: fewer motorists fined for mobile use

17 April 2015 - 5:46pm
ANTONISH wrote:The new Medway Police station (large glass fronted) overlooks a complex traffic light controlled system
I often drive through it. At the moment there is a lot of roadworks going on and there is a temporary 30mph speed limit which is routinely ignored.
I see drivers going through red lights and of course people driving whilst on mobile phones.
If the police can't be bothered to stroll outside or look out of a window to observe what is going on under their noses, I doubt that they would be prepared to organise a vehicle and actually attempt to gather evidence with a view to prosecution.

Nail,head,on

Re: fewer motorists fined for mobile use

17 April 2015 - 5:38pm
I put it down to having to be observant at all times when I ride my motorcycle because when on it I lose count of how many motorists I spot using their mobile phones.

You have to take my word for it but I actually saw a motorists going the other way to me on the M40 checking his Lottery Ticket.

It is probably a motorcyclist thing as I was once on a Bike Safe motorcycle course and the police officer following me shouted out to a motorist to put his seat belt on. That's one I hadn't spotted.

Re: fewer motorists fined for mobile use

17 April 2015 - 5:33pm
TrevA wrote:But you still see plenty of people doing it.
It depends what you mean by plenty. Plenty could still be a lot less than before. Some car drivers seem to see a lot of cyclists misbehaving on the roads. It sticks in their minds, while they overlook the compliant majority.

There's still plenty of drink driving. But prosecuting it has at least succeeded in making it a lot less common, and that is generally seen as the reason for fewer DUI convictions these days. With it now being well understood from prominent national news stories that if you are involved in a collision, and they can find you were doing something with your phone at the time, as is apparently fairly easy to show, they'll throw the book at you, has the attitude towards phone use while driving started to head in the same direction as drink driving? So - is it caught less often because there is less of it?

Re: fewer motorists fined for mobile use

17 April 2015 - 4:28pm
It is illegal to use a hand held mobile phone (in most circumstances) whilst driving, The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2003.

IIRC that legislation was introduced because whilst the dangers of using a mobile whilst driving were proven, it was too difficult to prosecute the outcomes of mobile phone use at the wheel as careless/dangerous driving.

RoSPA sum things up extremely well:
Drivers who use a mobile phone, whether hand-held or hands-free:

are much less aware of what's happening on the road around them
fail to see road signs
fail to maintain proper lane position and steady speed
are more likely to 'tailgate' the vehicle in front
react more slowly, take longer to brake and longer to stop
are more likely to enter unsafe gaps in traffic
feel more stressed and frustrated.

They are also four times more likely to crash, injuring or killing themselves and other people.
From my own observations there are very many drivers who are quite happy that being four times more likely to crash, injuring or killing themselves and other people is an acceptable risk. In fact I think most of them don't see it as any kind of risk at all.

It's illegal because it is so dangerous. It really shouldn't need to be illegal at all, it should be obvious that you just don't do it.

Re: fewer motorists fined for mobile use

17 April 2015 - 3:30pm
The new Medway Police station (large glass fronted) overlooks a complex traffic light controlled system
I often drive through it. At the moment there is a lot of roadworks going on and there is a temporary 30mph speed limit which is routinely ignored.
I see drivers going through red lights and of course people driving whilst on mobile phones.
If the police can't be bothered to stroll outside or look out of a window to observe what is going on under their noses, I doubt that they would be prepared to organise a vehicle and actually attempt to gather evidence with a view to prosecution.

Re: fewer motorists fined for mobile use

17 April 2015 - 1:00pm
ANTONISH wrote:It isn't an "easy pinch" - unlike a cyclist riding on the pavement.

Huh!
I'd say it's far easier to catch 'em.
A casual dressed PC stood at any busy TL/junction and a second or third uniformed officer up the road handing out the tickets.They'd earn their wages in an hour or two.
Do that enough up and down the country regularly enough and word will get around PDQ.
I'd also double the fine and it'd cost a one driving ban on a second ticket.
Of course you first have to be serious about stopping crime,rather than tolerating it.


I'm absolutely convinced mobile use is at the centre of 60%+ of RTI's.

Re: fewer motorists fined for mobile use

17 April 2015 - 12:57pm
TrevA wrote:But you still see plenty of people doing it. I count several on every journey i make, either by bike or car.
This is what I can't understand. I see the same and if we are both seeing this, how come a plain clothed Police car isn't as well and thus isn't booking all these people. They could be getting loads every day. And after a few weeks word would get around and people would no longer feel they wont get caught and will stop (or reduce) their use.

But as things stand, I'd expect we all see this regularly (I nearly got squashed by a van coming towards me on a to lane road because the driver was on his phone and not watching which side of the road he was on) and nothing will improve unless something starts to get enforced.

Ian

Re: fewer motorists fined for mobile use

17 April 2015 - 12:24pm
Best way to catch them would be via unmarked police van.... higher up so i can see all the 'held down by the gear lever / on the knee' mobiles....... 4 last week on a short stretch of M61 , another 3-4 this morning.......

Re: fewer motorists fined for mobile use

17 April 2015 - 12:19pm
But you still see plenty of people doing it. I count several on every journey i make, either by bike or car.

Re: fewer motorists fined for mobile use

17 April 2015 - 11:37am
mercalia wrote:rather depressing that there has been a fall in fines given out -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32337990

Often a reduction in prosecutions for something is given as evidence of reduced offending. Why do you think that this is reduced enforcement rather than reduced offending? My observation is that most people now think using a mobile phone is taboo, whereas not long ago it was thought to be the whole point of the thing.

Re: fewer motorists fined for mobile use

17 April 2015 - 11:06am
It isn't an "easy pinch" - unlike a cyclist riding on the pavement.

Re: fewer motorists fined for mobile use

17 April 2015 - 11:03am
They're getting away with everything these days it seems and they very well know they can.
The missus and I were on our way back to mine yesterday on the M61 where they are upgrading it to a 'smart motorway' and there is a 50mph speed limit because of the roadworks. We were doing according to her speedo, 48mph and some idiot using a mobile undertook us doing probably 70mph. It happens all the time.

fewer motorists fined for mobile use

17 April 2015 - 10:47am
rather depressing that there has been a fall in fines given out -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32337990

I dont think the softly softly approach that many polieforces doing makes a difference

Re: Route from Bala to Dolgellau advice.

16 April 2015 - 9:55pm
As A roads go, that stretch to Dolly from the west end of Lake Bala is pretty good outside peak season. Often quietish, smooth tarmac, no steep sections and wide for much of it's length. It can be done in about an hour IIRC.

Re: Disappointing For Cyclists in Radstock

16 April 2015 - 9:09pm
Dave W wrote:I thought there was a short cut that definitely avoids the double roundabout - not sure about the new roundabout.

http://www.gps-routes.co.uk/routes/home ... ycle-route

Have to say Radstock has become a total bottleneck particularly when driving in from Trowbridge to visit Bike It to get my bike serviced.

Hi Dave. There used to be before all the regeneration work. It was a source of lots of complaints on the NCN24 as it was so tricky. I'm hoping they fix something up. I'm hoping once the housing is finished they'll make this link safe and cycle friendly rather than 'pedestrianising' us.

Still waiting to get advice from our CTC rep...b

Re: What is gr8 about motorcycling?

16 April 2015 - 8:31pm
To give my opinion on whether motorbikes are more like cars or bicycles; neither. They have similarities with each and their own unique characteristics.

The attraction and the practicality will, obviously, depend on the person and how they use it.

As for assisted pedal cycles - well, back in the past (till the early 80s?) mopeds had pedals with which they could, at least in theory, be powered, and often that was how you started the motor. Nowadays that's completely gone and a moped is just a small, low-powered, usually speed-restricted (used to be 30+/5mph in UK, now I think it's 45km/h EU) motorcycle. It would, as has already been said, be possible to line up historic vehicles and show a clear progression from early 20th century bicycle-with-engine to modern motorbike, and a moped would be a sort of off-shoot of this. So philosophically or intellectually, I agree with the view that power-assisted pedal cycles are fundamentally not pedal cycles, regardless of how that assistance is provided. However, in practice they have - at the moment - more in common with bicycles than with motor vehicles, as far as I can tell from observation, not having ridden one.

But having that power on tap clearly enables them to do things a normal bike with a normal rider wouldn't. For instance, there's a father of a child at my son's school who takes his kid to school on an electric-assisted bike. He rides up a short section of hill which is about 1:6 then does a U-turn onto the pavement and up an equally steep but narrow path to the main pavement which is some six or so feet above road level. He comes to an almost complete stop, turns, then powers up the next slope. All this with a child of about 8 on the back. No way most people would be able to do that on a non-assisted bike (and he doesn't look particularly sporty). I therefore do wonder about the effect they will have on what we so fondly know as Silly Sustrans Gates (other providers of cycle path obstacles are available!). The extra power gives more control at low speed, negating those obstacles, as well as enabling higher speeds and hill climbing. With the UK climate so much in favour of these obstacles (to prevent danger from speeding lycra louts or keep motorbikes off paths, variously) I fear the growth of electric bikes - they are quite popular here (Bristol) - will see a corresponding growth in number and severity of such obstacles.

(Haven't ridden a motorbike for 20 years but used to do 50,000 miles a year as a courier.)

Re: I Got Nudged

16 April 2015 - 8:11pm
Bicycler wrote:Ah, the attitude to elderly drivers no longer able to drive competently. No-one wants to deprive a pensioner of their transport do they? Incidents which should raise everyone's attention to the danger are turned a blind eye. Vision requirements are unenforced but then they aren't going very fast or very far and only in daylight so it's okay. This just seems the right thing to do until....
...someone gets hurt or killed and then the question is "why wasn't he stopped from driving?" I remember my granddad's driving in his later years from when I was a child. My mum insisted I walk home rather than accept a lift. If I get to the point where I don't trust my dad to drive he won't be driving unless a doctor tells me he is fit and I would notify the DVLA if I thought he might be inclined to do so. I don't want innocent people hurt and I don't want his final years scarred by the memory and guilt of causing a horrific incident.

As ever with driver licensing it is a privilege, not a right and it must be dependent upon meeting all the criteria to be able to safely operate the vehicle. A tonne of metal hurts as much when it hits you regardless of the age of the driver. We cannot have lower standards for the elderly.
Absolutely spot on!

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