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Updated: 1 hour 9 min ago

Re: Accident waiting to happen.

3 January 2015 - 10:20pm
mjr - from the descent back onto the roadway at the end of the new track there are about 178 metres until Baldwin Street merges with Broad Quay and the Centre. Marsh Street (part way along those 178 metres) should probably have had a junction treatment too, but that seems not to be in the plans at present. I haven't seen any change to the lights up by Bristol Bridge but I do find them and the road layout very confusing. There are all sorts of conflicts to notice while standing about and generally observing. The photo here shows a typical misunderstanding: https://www.flickr.com/photos/samsaunders/11001128206 (a pedestrian crossing on cycle lane).

Some new money that has emerged from central funding for the cycling ambition grant cities has created a flurry of activity, as the date for costed proposals is in January (call put out just before Christmas). There will be opportunities to resolve some long-standing problems and maybe even do something a bit more ambitious. The general short-termism is a real handicap, almost guaranteeing sub-optimal use of the small sums that are available. It's understandable that a lot of people shake their heads at the bits and bobs that are created as activity lurches from one funding rush to the next.

Re: The Dangers of Road Debris

3 January 2015 - 9:39pm
The guy who crashed has thirty years experience according to the report.
I suppose to some on this forum that makes him a "newb" but more experienced than myself on cycles.

Also a fair degree of hindsight is required to know that the overtaking car would be so reasonable as to stay in the outside lane. I would have been allowing for him to come into the inside lane, regardless of what I signalled or did.

Re: The Dangers of Road Debris

3 January 2015 - 9:36pm
Looking at it again..they are even more stupid than i thought, the roads were so quiet, the so called cycle lane narrows to little more than a gutter lane..what the hell where they thinking, and still, how the hell did they not see large chunks of 'stuff' in the lane and shoulder check and move out..As I said..newbs, all the gear & no idea..

Crane River Parks Hounslow London

3 January 2015 - 9:33pm
For any one living in London ( who has a freedom pass to get there free by train ) I have found a very nice short ride along both sides of the river crane in Crane Parks, Hounslow.


It is only a short ride but can be lenghtened adding Hanworth Park near by or Hounslow Heath ( more walking than riding )

Train stations either Twickenham or Whitton ( the closest )


It is a really lovely ride one side is tarmaced but with dirt track off shoots that go closer to the river, the other side ( newer I think ) is graveled winding around under avenues of trees. A real bit of wilderness. There is a nature reserve and whats left of the Gunpowder industry ( tower for making musket balls) There is a refreshment kiosk open during the winter in the east end in Kneller Gardens.

I really love this area. Great at any time of the year or day ( never closes ) Great night rides!

Re: panniers

3 January 2015 - 8:39pm
There shouldn't be an effect on the rack by the mudguard, but with a 37mm tyre on the back I found the tyre-seatpost spacing to be so tight to a full mudguard (SKS chromoplastic) that it clogged on muddy trails. So I replaced that with an SKS Beavertail at the back, leaving the full mudguard at the front.

I protected my legs by putting a 'Crud Catcher' type mud type guard on the back of the seat post, rather than on the bottom tube where they normally live, trimmed a little to fit round the mechanicals.

It may be that you will be fine.


Re: The Dangers of Road Debris

3 January 2015 - 6:12pm
beardy wrote:Finally despite having lived in Australia for a few years, I dont know if cyclists are allowed/supposed to ride in or out of that shoulder.

The video in this link shows a cycle logo in the lane early on so the answer is yes. It also describes it as a freeway so assuming that is the same as elsewhere like the USA they had to use the shoulder not the lane.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015 ... ght-camera

A quote from another link -

Fellow Byron Bay Cycle Club member Adam Taylor was riding in front of Condon when the accident happened. He said the area's roads were often littered with debris.

"The roads are really bad around Byron Bay and there is debris on the road," Taylor said.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/this-is-going ... 2hbbu.html

Known problem in that area then?

Re: The Dangers of Road Debris

3 January 2015 - 6:00pm
Incidentally, this still from the earlier video shows the precise moment the metal bar becomes trapped in front of his feet and is about to lodge itself between front wheel and down tube:
still from video 03-01-2014.jpg

Re: The Dangers of Road Debris

3 January 2015 - 5:57pm
From the description under the Youtube posting:
Anthony reportedly escaped with only cuts and bruises and was up and back on the bike the next day.
Lucky guy! I presume it wasn't the same bike....

Re: panniers

3 January 2015 - 5:51pm
Lee1976uk wrote: Will the mudguard have a say on what rack and panniers I use?It shouldn't do - it doesn't on my ones.

Re: panniers

3 January 2015 - 5:46pm

Re: The Dangers of Road Debris

3 January 2015 - 5:44pm
This is where the benefits of hindsight come in. They thought that they could steer a path through the debris (including riding over it), most of them did do just that, even while avoiding a flying bicycle.
Such non-events of riding over debris are probably occurring all over the world on a daily basis but this one had a freak occurrence that falls outside of what can be reasonably predicted and the damage, while more severe than normal didnt result in injury to third parties.

Though there are several different versions of what happened and one does include a broken elbow for the rider himself.

I can think of several examples of people getting splatted by vehicles on such roads for NOT riding on the shoulder with long term hospitalisation as a reward. There is risk out there, letting a minor risk of a lesser accident turn your policies into taking a risk of a greater danger instead, would be a knee jerk reaction to a rather rare video.

I am not wedded to shoulder, carriageway or keeping moving at all costs. I drift between them as suitable but as in this case what was possibly the better option on entering turned out not to be so, with the benefit of hindsight.

They did have the danger of a slip road to cross and I think like them, at the time, my main concern would have been for vehicles entering on that slip road, at speed, looking to their right and not in front of themselves. A known killer scenario for cyclists.

Finally despite having lived in Australia for a few years, I dont know if cyclists are allowed/supposed to ride in or out of that shoulder.

Re: Ten Miles a Day

3 January 2015 - 5:33pm
SleepyJoe wrote:Total mileage this year is only 3,329- I've failed this year but will try harder next year!
My downfall are the school holidays when I miss my 7 mile commute.
Well done to everyone who hit their targets & especially those who hit 10k miles
Happy new year
Mark Even so that's more than me at 3293 - just 9 miles/day. Interestingly the doctors' checkups aren't interested in mileage, but hours, so anyone who's travelled say 5000 miles scores the same as someone who's travelled 2500 miles at half the speed. .

Re: The Dangers of Road Debris

3 January 2015 - 5:29pm
hondated wrote:Tonyf33 wrote:Bloody newbs, seriously what a douche, how the hell can you not see those VERY large sticks and why oh why were they riding in the gutter in the first place? The carriageway clearly is demarked by the solid white line, why the heck would you ride in the trash section, just asking for trouble.
Stupid is as stupid does springs to mind..
Oh come on Tony that finally comment is a bit harsh.Haven't we all done silly things.

I don't put my head down when in a group on what was clearly a fast section of downhill road, I don't jump from the carriageway to the gutter (& back again), never mind to do it without over the shoulder or under the arm checks, I keep my eyes open for hazards not jerking about like this bunch of idiots. They brought this on themselves by their own actions/inactions, the debris is relatively minor, it's a few large objects that could have easily being avoided even at speed but because they don't have either the riding skills nor the intelligence to figure out risk & hazard perception & why the crash happened they'll carry on making the same stupid errors. My phrase is wholly appropriate IMO.

Re: The Dangers of Road Debris

3 January 2015 - 5:22pm
beardy wrote:If the debris was stationary then that would be so.

If the debris was moving then it is valid.

There does seem to be a starting assumption that these riders were incompetent and a scenario built around that to support it. Putting yourself in the position of the rider who fell or the camera owner, you had a choice. Attempt to move out (knowing you have a group moving with you), slow down and maybe stop or navigate a course through the debris.
Every day across this country lots of groups of cyclists are successfully navigating through the debris. One freak accident from the other side of the world doesnt radically change the relative risks of the different courses of action.
Nail, Head, how can the lead rider not see those huge twigs/branches, you could see them from a fair distance away not like they are invisible are they? I've followed close behind someone on many occasions and the size of the obstacle would mean that they should have being seen by the riders behind as well or were they just head down noddies as it clearly looks to be

Incompetent is bang on the money, relative risks..compared to what, other cycling? It's this type of riding that creates more risk because the cyclists themselves have no clue about anything aside from turning the pedals fast and they'll continue to ride like this because they are incompetent & won't seek advice on how to ride properly..

Re: The Dangers of Road Debris

3 January 2015 - 4:47pm
The fat commuter wrote:Phew, that is some video for him to show to his grand kids. I can't believe how high the bike goes in the air.

Yes, poor guy, glad he's ok.

Re: The Dangers of Road Debris

3 January 2015 - 4:28pm
Phew, that is some video for him to show to his grand kids. I can't believe how high the bike goes in the air.

Re: The Dangers of Road Debris

3 January 2015 - 4:01pm
Si wrote:beardy wrote:Totally irrelevant to the incident being discussed I'm afraid.

You think so?

Vehicle hits something caused by another vehicle but not the vehicle itself. The parallel is there, you just dont accept it.
I dont accept your off-hand dismissal of it.

Off hand only because I thought it totally obvious what the difference was. Obviously not so I shall explain. If there was more space between your friend and the car in front would it have given him more time to see and avoid the wheel? Answer: NO. If the rider had been further back from the vehicle in front (i.e. the camera cycle) would he have had more time to see and avoid the debris? Answer: YES. Therefore, if subjected to logical consideration, your example is irrelevant.

It is relevant because it shows that the debris moves and can even move far enough to cross a reservation and get you. Being close to the vehicle it comes off does not necessarily mean it will hit you, I have seen stuff bounce over the first cars and hit those further away. Also it shows that having a distance between the other vehicle, or even going in the other direction, will not guarantee your safety either.
I too believe this is totally obvious but I dont dismiss your arguments in an off hand way (out of politeness and a respect of the forum ethos).

Re: The Dangers of Road Debris

3 January 2015 - 3:28pm
We all prefer to not ride over debris and to keep out of the door zone. However they are not absolute rules and sometimes as the risk is small (especially when you see no occupant or a gap through the debris) you take that small risk, either to avoid a bigger risk or to keep momentum.
Calculated decisions that we make in life and certainly no where near the risk that I take to my own safety when I climb on my motorbike or to others when I get in my car.

I am more cautious than most in these respects, in fact an order of magnitude more cautious, yet I know there are risks in life and you can only minimise them not remove them.

Re: The Dangers of Road Debris

3 January 2015 - 3:13pm
beardy wrote:[ One rider had a freak event of it flipping into his wheel. Something that you could not make happen, if you were trying to do it!

I agree it was a freak event. So is getting doored. But I choose to pass cars far enough out to avoid it. Riding over huge bits of debris is also avoidable.

Re: The Dangers of Road Debris

3 January 2015 - 3:11pm
http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/se ... date=false

An article on the Cycling Lawyer blog from a couple of years ago, about a compo case where a rider on another's wheel (going downhill, BTW) didn't avoid a road defect and suffered serious injury. Their compo was substantially reduced for contributory negligence.


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