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Updated: 2 hours 19 min ago

Re: Pinch points.

27 February 2015 - 11:10am
reohn2 wrote:ArMoRothair wrote:661-Pete wrote:In France, where I frequently visit, these isolated pairs of bollards are much less common, instead you're more likely to encounter elongated 'islands' between the lanes, like here. Normally when cycling, it would make no difference whether you stayed in primary or secondary - the following motorist would just have to hold back!

But of course, in France, most cyclists are held in greater respect than their British counterparts. I wonder why?

I saw in Nantes this summer quite a few pinch points like the OP but the French have at least mitigated the problem by painting a half dozen bike icons through the centre of the pinch, in primary. I know we have to be wary of the supposed magic of paint but at least it does tell everyone, motorist and cyclist alike, that bikes are expected to use primary. And it costs nothing.

For example

IME,there isn't the aggression toward cyclists and other vulnerable road users that there is in the UK,it seems to be a much more people centric society,even though car use is equal to the UK's

In this area the authorities have done a lot of things that they consider to favour cyclists, but often just managing to put them in danger. This is a case in point. These things give motorists the impression that it's safe to enter the chicane while the cyclist is in the mini cycle-lane provided, but if the cyclist exits the lane while the car is still be in the pinch, the car is directed at the cyclist.

The one in my example is relatively wide-spaced and well-maintained, but in most villages they're tighter and the cycling part never gets swept and is full of forty kinds of débris.

I always take prime position and to hell with it.

These chicanes have become pretty well standard here over the last five years. A while back I was at an award presentation involving the regional council, and their safety officer asked me in a rather hearty fashion if I thought they could do anything more to help cyclists. My reply was "yes, get rid of all these new pinch points, they're deadly". End of conversation.

Re: Pinch points.

27 February 2015 - 10:59am
Kwackers, as others have said (and you are experienced enough to know) there is nothing that will stop idiots driving like idiots; I feel for you (been there etc).

The things I have found help in these situations have been:
- Ride slightly wider than the usual primary (obviously not wide enough to encourage them to try to pass inside and push you onto the islands)
- Flat bars rather than drops (I use bar ends to give a varied hand position) with no end stops (grazed and rusty ends on a commuter steed help too)
- Wobble to increase your apparent width - not a wheel wobble, but the kind sometimes used hill climbing: Swing those flat bars in an inverted pendulum, this really worries the overtakers.

Re: Pinch points.

27 February 2015 - 10:48am
i have a road where i live that is similar to this and i tend to indicate with a "thunbs up signal" and move into the middle of the road on the approach. the distance i do this is dependant on the speed of that part of the road.
the thing with the thumbs up is to thank them for something that they haven't actually offered but i have the feeling that it makes it feel a bit better. i think it's about communication.
i have the idea that most car drivers don't even understand the difficulties like these that cyclist have to struggle with on a daily basis. they actually think it's fine to squeeze past.
i say , politely communicate your needs and be firm and fair with it.

Regards

Bikerwaser

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

27 February 2015 - 10:30am
beardy wrote:As a driver I can cope with watching my front, my back and my right hand side but I have not managed to watch everywhere successfully, the left side is traditionally the one that you feel safe about. It is after all against the highway code to overtake on that side.
Frankly that is very worrying and I urge you to take further driver training in observation skills. RoSPA are very good at this.
As for the Highway Code:
Highway Code UK wrote:88

Manoeuvring. You should be aware of what is behind and to the sides before manoeuvring. Look behind you; use mirrors if they are fitted. When in traffic queues look out for pedestrians crossing between vehicles and vehicles emerging from junctions or changing lanes. Position yourself so that drivers in front can see you in their mirrors. Additionally, when filtering in slow-moving traffic, take care and keep your speed low.
Highway Code UK wrote:160
Once moving you should
...
be aware of other road users, especially cycles and motorcycles who may be filtering through the traffic. These are more difficult to see than larger vehicles and their riders are particularly vulnerable. Give them plenty of room, especially if you are driving a long vehicle or towing a trailer
Specific permission for motorcycles to filter, specific instructions for others to watch out for cyclists and motorcyclists filtering: You should indeed be expecting them on all sides; I certainly do.

I find it really, really sad that others here are still playing a 'blame game' (that's you landsurfer). Given the discussion direction that is a particularly vicious, nasty and disrespectful type of 'straw man'.

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

27 February 2015 - 9:29am
landsurfer wrote: as a 100k a year driver ... .

I could well imagine that driving some 2,000 miles a week would influence somebody's world view. It does not justify implying that anybody holding a different view is a humbug.

Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

27 February 2015 - 9:22am
Both at fault there, I would say. The cyclist was too quick off the mark and not alert to the possibility of someone coming from the left on a (very) mature amber. Poor survival skills. He also went over what is a pedestrian crossing on amber (minor technical infringement).

The lorry driver was very naughty, failing to stop on a late amber or a red.

Very lucky outcome.

Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

27 February 2015 - 9:21am
Typical cyclists, defending the RLJer.

The cyclist was an amber gambler and he lost.

Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

27 February 2015 - 9:15am
661-Pete wrote:But the lorry driver's action is a disgrace all the same.
I can't tell how much he jumped the lights by on that video.

In this case though I pretty much put most of the blame on the cyclist. He also jumped the lights, didn't see a lorry that was in plain view and completely ignored that bit about "go if the way is clear" that's 3 mistakes.
(Funny though.)

Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

27 February 2015 - 9:07am
I suppose it's rather tempting to be smug here, to declare "I always look both ways, even when there's a green light..." Maybe we all have an attention lapse now and again. Luckily not all of them lead to a body in the morgue.

But the lorry driver's action is a disgrace all the same.

It looks as if the side bars on the trailer saved the cyclist's life.

Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

27 February 2015 - 8:52am
Blimey! Stupid cyclist, stupid driver. Irrespective of fault, where was the cyclist looking? Perhaps they are the sort who would blame drivers for not seeing them, but, how do you not see a bloody great lorry right in front of you? Lorry didn't hit cyclist, he rode straight into the side of it!

Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

27 February 2015 - 8:36am
One of them has already had his slap, you saw it on the video.

Re: Pinch points.

27 February 2015 - 8:20am
ArMoRothair wrote:661-Pete wrote:In France, where I frequently visit, these isolated pairs of bollards are much less common, instead you're more likely to encounter elongated 'islands' between the lanes, like here. Normally when cycling, it would make no difference whether you stayed in primary or secondary - the following motorist would just have to hold back!

But of course, in France, most cyclists are held in greater respect than their British counterparts. I wonder why?

I saw in Nantes this summer quite a few pinch points like the OP but the French have at least mitigated the problem by painting a half dozen bike icons through the centre of the pinch, in primary. I know we have to be wary of the supposed magic of paint but at least it does tell everyone, motorist and cyclist alike, that bikes are expected to use primary. And it costs nothing.

For example

IME,there isn't the aggression toward cyclists and other vulnerable road users that there is in the UK,it seems to be a much more people centric society,even though car use is equal to the UK's

Re: Pinch points.

27 February 2015 - 7:59am
I should point out I usually ride with a mirror although currently don't (someone broke it at the station - probably trying to recover the lock they'd left on the stand... )

IMO whilst I like having a mirror I'm more than a little doubtful of how useful they actually are when it comes to preventing accidents. They're not actually that great at even telling you how close someone will pass mainly because folk are often still moving out as they pass (or in this case cutting back in).

Handy but by no means essential IMO.

Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

27 February 2015 - 4:23am
The pair of'em need a slap.

Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

27 February 2015 - 1:32am
http://youtu.be/tMnQ7lpOZ3o

Really should learn the 'Highway Code'

Re: Pinch points.

27 February 2015 - 12:24am
Tonyf33 wrote:In YOUR OPINION...

As someone who's ridden a long time both with and without a RVM

Re: Pinch points.

27 February 2015 - 12:07am
reohn2 wrote:IRC
Spot on

Tonyf33
You're wrong simple as.
In YOUR OPINION...what bit of what I've written is false? NONE OF IT..SIMPLE AS

Re: Pinch points.

27 February 2015 - 12:02am
IRC
Spot on

Tonyf33
You're wrong simple as.

Re: Pinch points.

26 February 2015 - 11:53pm
One over the shoulder check does not equal multiple checks in a mirror, not even close, nor does it entertain the fact that you're more like to take avoiding action unnecessarily..every thread on here involving mirrors on bikes I've heard their users state " so I can take avoiding action".
You are massively more likely to make a manoeuvre that just isn't required at all, on a busy day you might well check your mirror a hundred times, most with a glance but others longer.
I know that judging distance isn't easy to absolutely state that a vehicle is going to hit you or come within X distance at the point of it overtaking you that one has to move out the way, no matter how well versed you are. Partly because you can't 100% predict what that vehicle will do from the point you look away & you are moving 'away' from the threat.

The amount of times that a vehicle comes into view that looks like they are on a collision course and you move to the left only for them to sail by with more width than you thought, I can guarantee that will happen using mirrors and at a given speed your reactions may not be enough if you are unfortunate enough anyway..
whichever it is you are trying to figure that out each and every time you look, ergo you are not thinking as much about what is going on in front of you.
A mirror gives you more to think about than is necessary, with one I reckon it puts more worry into cyclists, is distracting in general and could end up making a ride less pleasant.

Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

26 February 2015 - 10:51pm
landsurfer wrote:A terrible loss of life, and if SH is correct, and I don't doubt he is, wholly the fault of the cyclist.


No - it's the fault of the system that repeatedly fails to take human life seriously.

I'm not blaming the driver, but the drivers of such vehicles are ridiculously overrepresented in the statistics for serious injuries and death. That isn't this driver's fault, but it is a fact.

These vehicles are not safe on our roads in their current configuration, and with their current operating practices.

Something needs to change, and that is the place to start - as per any H&S issue, start at the dangerous machine, not the victim(s).
In this case (assuming the report up thread is accurate) the lady and driver are *both* victims, although to differing degrees.

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