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Re: Using cycle paths

24 November 2014 - 6:56pm
I rode south though Manchester some few years ago, and wasn't allowed to cycle on the A5103 so had to use the cycle path/pedestrian path.

I was towing a trailer, and couldn't get through some of the bollards without stopping and lifting the trailer through.
VERY annoyed!
I'd have been happier on the main road!

Re: Using cycle paths

24 November 2014 - 6:52pm
Apologies to those of you who have seen it before ... To paraphrase Crocodile Dundee: That's not a barrier, this is a barrier...

There are four of these on 0.5 miles of path which has the extremely rare distinction of being one that Sustrans relinquished. There are still some of the same style on a section of NCN1 in Bexley.

Re: Skateboarders v cyclists..amazing footage

24 November 2014 - 6:38pm
Or figure out where it is and check Strava?

Re: Skateboarders v cyclists..amazing footage

24 November 2014 - 6:35pm
Was looking to find a proper race, all I've found so far is this braking test-

http://www.skatetheeast.net/2013/06/bra ... kateboard/

But doesn't look to me like the bike is braking as much as possible, they also don't seem to be having to try too hard to match speed with the skateboard.

Re: Using cycle paths

24 November 2014 - 6:34pm
ukdodger wrote:Am I just lucky or have all of the barriers I've been through not been those you've been through. I mean how hard is it to get a bike past one. Or is it that what you're really saying is that anything at all that gets in your way is all wrong and shouldnt be allowed.
No, that's not what I'm saying, although if we want to encourage cycling, it probably shouldn't be made more dangerous than necessary.

Have you really never been through any barriers like the pictures posted above? Or these evil things which I was just writing about:


How hard are they? Well, I think the narrowest gap at handlebar height I've measured is 620mm - if any are accidentally left slightly wider at 675mm, then even a Honda Goldwing can get through! If the barriers are set to DfT's recommended width (1.2m in LTN2/08 - the more recent LTN1/12 flatly discourages them) or Sustrans's (1.5m in their latest guide), then most motorcycles wouldn't even need to stop. So, one more time, how can any of these barriers logically ever stop motorcycle access?

Anyway, the most common width of bike flat handlebars is 600mm. Not much scope for wobbling and still fitting through a 620mm gap, but I think you'd make it 99 times out of 100... but if these are on your commuting route, 50 weeks working 5 days, 99% success would mean 5 crashes a year, assuming you don't injure yourself or damage the bike too badly to ride. What would happen if roads were designed so typical driving commuters will each suffer 5 car crashes a year?

Re: Using cycle paths

24 November 2014 - 6:31pm
ukdodger wrote:Understandable but everybody cant be catered for and as I said these barriers arent only for the benefit of cyclists.

I understand your point of view but from a livability point of view it is a rubbish attitude. There is no way that these barriers prevent motorbikes as I have come across plenty on those paths.

There are too many things like this in Britain where the standard of living is seriously affected by some peculiar fantasy of preventing anti social behaviour.

Re: Using cycle paths

24 November 2014 - 6:30pm
ukdodger wrote:Someone somewhere must have done their homework on this issue and as I've said everyone cant be pleased.

Why do you assume this?

The number of stupid barriers in this thread would suggest otherwise.

Re: Using cycle paths

24 November 2014 - 6:29pm
Just licence a volunteer with a nice fast motorbike to 'police' it, maybe use some kind of motorbike detection system/CCTV once there is a problem path, to alert them.

Re: Using cycle paths

24 November 2014 - 4:59pm
Bicycler wrote:ukdodger wrote:Or scramble bikes upsetting their daily walks. What makes you think other path users dont welcome these measures as well?
I was including them with locals. The point I make is that this is one of those convenient excuses commonly trotted out when people don't want cyclists to have access to places.

Again, I'll suggest that if these are to be used they ought to be a retrospective measure, a solution to an actual problem in the few places where there is one, not used routinely on many cycle paths because someone might use a motorbike on there.

I have been passed by a motorcycle (a scooter) on a cycle path once this decade and that was on a path with the silly barriers. The kids on the bike didn't cause any problems so I wasn't fussed. Certainly less fussed than I was by one particular barrier at one end of the path. In order to be worth the nuisance they cause these things would have to be stopping frequent use of the path by nuisance motorbikers who would otherwise use the path and I just don't think that applies in the majority of cases.

I cant see why walkers and such wouldnt want cyclists but have no objection to motorcyclists. That doesnt make sense.

Without the barriers why wouldnt you have had many more pass you?

Re: Using cycle paths

24 November 2014 - 4:48pm
Now you know why I call them "Anti-cycling barriers".
I think most are there to make cycling harder, not to improve your safety.
I'd keep the odd one.
Like at the bottom of a steep bit of track just before a road to stop kids bombing down the slope and straight onto the road.
But I think most can be replaced by just a post or a pair of post as that's enough to keep cars off a track.
Which is all you basically need.

Re: Using cycle paths

24 November 2014 - 4:38pm
Some barriers are likely to put people off from using a cycle path, as some give the impression that cycling isn't allowed, signs can't always be believed and aren't always there.

Re: Is it time for radicalism?

24 November 2014 - 4:35pm
reohn2 wrote:al_yrpal wrote:
Another point that's been brought up is the physical size of individual private vehicles and the subliminal sales pitch that bigger is better because bigger is safer,which is a self fulfilling prophecy,how big does a vehicle need to be to transport what for the most part is one person with occasional family use?
That's something in need of consideration on an already overcrowded road system,wouldn't you say?

I would agree about vehicle sizes, but what you do about it… . ? Lobby for a tax based on size? I think the majority have got contempt for big 4wds anyway.
Perhaps evolution isn't the right word but I am encouraged by a lot of what is changing around here. I didnt mention the Reading bike hire scheme, but that started recently, and our other big town, Oxford is literally cycle city.
As cyclists I think we can all try to get the message across without becoming preachy and tiresome. I watched the recent Parliamentry debate, the main thing that struck me was how lttle interest in it there was. When we wanted Bradley as BBC Sports Personality we achieved that easily. That shows the numbers are there. Now how to get them enthused to get a better transport network?


Al

Re: Using cycle paths

24 November 2014 - 4:15pm
I find it difficult to get through some of the barriers here. I certainly can't ride through them. I have to stop and wiggle my bike through or I'd catch the cranks on the darned things. I might just be able to do it if I used them every day and had a lot of practice, but the surface you're riding on is uneven and a rut develops where tyres go through.
I came across a child with a disability on a special bike on one of the local paths- I doubt he'd have got through some of the barriers; I suppose he just has to get on and off where the barriers are better designed.
It doesn't stop motor scooters anyway, I've even seen them racing on there, so I don't see the point.

Re: Using cycle paths

24 November 2014 - 3:53pm
mjr wrote:I'm amazed there aren't desire lines worn through the grass and an informal crossing appearing immediately beyond that refuge, where you won't get blatted by a collapsing giant "keep left" sign if a car hits the refuge.

There is one, just a bit further on http://goo.gl/maps/LXM41

I guess there are probably other problems with that cycleway and so it doesn't get used enough to wear out the grass.


I've no idea how much general use it gets as I don't cycle in that area often but it seems like a good enough path to me by UK standards.

Re: Is it time for radicalism?

24 November 2014 - 3:49pm
To be honest there are worse things in the world than being caught up in congested traffic. Far far worse things. Remember the old limerick:
A novice was driving a car,
When, down Porlock, his son said "Papa,
"If you drive at this rate,
"We are bound to be late!
"Drive faster!" He did - and they are!

Re: Using cycle paths

24 November 2014 - 3:49pm
Another all too common one is the likes of this http://goo.gl/maps/V5Bl6 the mentality of "cycle route must have barriers" whereas the pedestrian route doesn't have any, even thought they are the same pavement.
Is the average cyclist going to stop and negotiate around the barriers, or use the pedestrian side?

Re: Using cycle paths

24 November 2014 - 3:47pm
ukdodger wrote:Or scramble bikes upsetting their daily walks. What makes you think other path users dont welcome these measures as well?
I was including them with locals. The point I make is that this is one of those convenient excuses commonly trotted out when people don't want cyclists to have access to places.

Again, I'll suggest that if these are to be used they ought to be a retrospective measure, a solution to an actual problem in the few places where there is one, not used routinely on many cycle paths because someone might use a motorbike on there.

I have been passed by a motorcycle (a scooter) on a cycle path once this decade and that was on a path with the silly barriers. The kids on the bike didn't cause any problems so I wasn't fussed. Certainly less fussed than I was by one particular barrier at one end of the path. In order to be worth the nuisance they cause these things would have to be stopping frequent use of the path by nuisance motorbikers who would otherwise use the path and I just don't think that applies in the majority of cases.

Re: Is it time for radicalism?

24 November 2014 - 3:28pm
661-Pete wrote:Perhaps we should have hired bicycles (I have to chuckle though, at the thought of putting the suggestion to my colleagues!)

The Dutch have a programme for such people.

Re: Using cycle paths

24 November 2014 - 2:23pm
Vorpal wrote:ukdodger wrote:Bicycler wrote:Motorcycle barriers are overrated for their purpose and a nuisance to all kinds of legitimate path users. They are usually installed to prevent a problem which doesn't exist and usually not implemented well enough to prevent local youths who know the area from accessing the route on their bikes anyway.

But better than nothing.
No they aren't. They are far worse than nothing. Because they prevent all sorts of mobility aids, child trailers, cargo bikes, trikes, and touring bikes from accessing paths, and they do *nothing* to prevent illegal motorcycling. Motorcyclists who are keen to use cycle paths find other means to access them. Even if you fenced in every mile of a path, still they will cut the fence, or go through someone's garden gate if they think that's where they should ride.

Illegal motorcycling must be addressed as a social and legal issue, not an access issue.

How do you know they do nothing to prevent M/C's? Sure they can make access another way but at what cost to them. It's not a brick wall it's a deterrent. I dont know the criteria for installing these barriers but no doubt they've taken the needs of all possible users into account. You dont see them on all paths. Maybe some paths arent accessible anyway for mobility aids etc. I cycle a lot in the Surrey hills where there are no barriers and at least one path is used (legally I might add) by scramble bikes. Next time you're this way I'll take you for a ride along it. You can experience for yourself several racing scrambling bikes coming past at speed and is that what you want for mobility aids & child trailers?

Re: Using cycle paths

24 November 2014 - 2:03pm
ukdodger wrote:Bicycler wrote:Motorcycle barriers are overrated for their purpose and a nuisance to all kinds of legitimate path users. They are usually installed to prevent a problem which doesn't exist and usually not implemented well enough to prevent local youths who know the area from accessing the route on their bikes anyway.

But better than nothing.
No they aren't. They are far worse than nothing. Because they prevent all sorts of mobility aids, child trailers, cargo bikes, trikes, and touring bikes from accessing paths, and they do *nothing* to prevent illegal motorcycling. Motorcyclists who are keen to use cycle paths find other means to access them. Even if you fenced in every mile of a path, still they will cut the fence, or go through someone's garden gate if they think that's where they should ride.

Illegal motorcycling must be addressed as a social and legal issue, not an access issue.

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