CTC Forum - On the road

Syndicate content
Discussion boards hosted by CTC, the national cycling charity
Updated: 37 min 11 sec ago

Re: Is this level of insanity commonplace?

13 June 2014 - 8:41am
Some drivers can't tolerate a car in front of them, even if that car is doing the limit. When they have overtaken, which they will do regardless of bends, solid white lines, oncoming traffic which has to brake, or indeed anything, they may even go slower that the original car was doing. I have no idea why some drivers think this way. I see they do, but just can't understand why.

It's even worse with bikes, in that some drivers classify all bikes as slow moving and will overtake on the assumption that the bike is only doing walking pace. They then find the bike is doing 20mph or more and takes a lot longer to overtake than they thought.

Re: Cycling snobbery!

13 June 2014 - 7:42am
Men forget about it,

I'm in my mid 20's, done the carbon bike thing, local team kit the works. Hated the feel of carbon, didn't like the reception of the club and the design of the kit anymore.

Went to a lovely steel frame and all plain black kit, don't really go out with the guys much now as feel uncomfortable. The last time I did (and probably the last time) the welcoming was not great, the look of horror when the carbon had disappeared and I was sporting the steeley was uncanny.

Snobbery was maximum, 1/4 the way through a club run, I snook to the back and took a sneeky left turn and enjoyed the rest of my ride and rides there after. The moral of the story is even your comrades can turn on you due to a bike type...

Re: Not your usual "Cyclists Dismount" sign!

12 June 2014 - 11:48pm
I only ever learnt a few words like Yes and No...)

Try that in Welsh.

Re: Not your usual "Cyclists Dismount" sign!

12 June 2014 - 11:09pm
Mike Sales wrote:I used to know a trilingual boy. He spoke Portugese with his mother, English with his father and Welsh at school. He has done very well in life.
He didn't grow up to be the Emperor Charles V, by any chance?

Re: Not your usual "Cyclists Dismount" sign!

12 June 2014 - 11:08pm
karlt wrote: having learnt some of both Welsh and French I'd say that for the English speaker Welsh has fewer challenging sounds than French; it also has only one conjugation of verbs with only three inflected tenses and only a handful of irregular verbs.
I wouldn't agree that a simpler grammatical structure is enough to make a language 'easy'. In fact it would be a bold person who asserted that any language is easy for any particular person not brought up to it. I've been told that Spanish is easy to learn, but despite some years of study and a reasonable grasp of the language basics, I still can't follow Spanish dialogue on TV. Dutch is said to be the closest language to English, syntactically, but it's notoriously hard for an English speaker to pronounce correctly (as a Dutch friend has pointed out to me). And few English people are fluent in Dutch, probably because it isn't taught in most schools.

Incidentally, if you've ever despaired over all those genders, le and la in French, der, die, das, etc. in German ... try Hungarian. It doesn't have any genders. Doesn't make it easy! (My mother was Hungarian, so I know all about it. I only ever learnt a few words like Yes and No...)

Re: Not your usual "Cyclists Dismount" sign!

12 June 2014 - 11:03pm
I used to know a trilingual boy. He spoke Portugese with his mother, English with his father and Welsh at school. He has done very well in life.

Re: Not your usual "Cyclists Dismount" sign!

12 June 2014 - 9:42pm
I do wish to point out that I wasn't stating an opinion on the curriculum of welsh schools, the Welsh language or Welsh speakers. I was challenging the assertion that English speaking residents of Wales who don't learn Welsh are arrogant

Re: Not your usual "Cyclists Dismount" sign!

12 June 2014 - 9:27pm
Having two languages is common through the world. Swiss German speakers can also generally speak standard High German. It's called Diglossia. The Welsh situation is somewhat unusual in that the two languages are only distantly related, but the same principle applies. The fact that 1st Language (L1) Welsh speakers also speak English is neither here nor there; English is a second language, needed for some official use and to access a wider range of entertainment,information and literature, but a second language it remains. It doesn't seem that much of a stretch to consider being conversant in Welsh as a part of a rounded education in Wales, allowing the person so educated to access the considerable proportion of Welsh culture that uses the Welsh language, as well as opening and explaining the typonomy of the country. It may not be a language that folk in Newport are going down to the pub, but familiarity with it does give the aforementioned cultural benefits. One may not wish to make use of those benefits, but we don't accept that as an excuse for excising Shakespeare from the curriculum either. We would hardly, I'm sure, consider French an imposition on the curriculum in England if a fifth of Englishmen had French as a first language; it'd be a no-brainer.

Personally I think there's a strong case for having a term or two of Welsh and Gaelic in schools in England; it might reduce the animosity a bit and perhaps put a lid on all the crap that's spoken about Welsh being an obscure, strange and unpronounceable language. It isn't; having learnt some of both Welsh and French I'd say that for the English speaker Welsh has fewer challenging sounds than French; it also has only one conjugation of verbs with only three inflected tenses and only a handful of irregular verbs.

Re: Is this level of insanity commonplace?

12 June 2014 - 7:16pm
Mark1978 wrote:Assumption that it's always possible to overtake a cyclist within the lane, if only that pesky cyclist wasn't being selfish and riding in the middle of the road.
Going past a bicycle isn't really overtaking and they are so slow that it doesn't matter if there is oncoming traffic or not.

There seems to be somekind of mental block/blindfold or idiotic stupidity/lunacy with some motorists when overtaking cyclists.
Within a mile yesterday on the tandem I took primary on a blind right hander when I spotted a big Volvo approaching from behind PDQ,the driver sensibly waited and as soon as I could see the road was clear I waved him through as I moved over to secondary.
He gave a little toot and a friendly wave as he passed us.It cost him all of 2to3 seconds max.

The next left hander,again blind(high hedges narrow lanes),a newish Fiesta overtook giving me plenty of room but in the face of an oncoming R/Rover who was flashing his headlights at him and leaning on the horn whilst having to dive for the grass verge .
Further on,I again took primary on two right handers only to be overtaken blind,luckily there wasn't anything oncoming.
It seems these idiots really don't care for their own safety or anyone else's and I really can't get my head around it.
In primary I'm ensuring my own safety by creating an escape zone to my left and narrowing the overtaking area to my right, whereas by staying in secondary I lessen my EZ and widen the OA.
Yet these people are so willing to take potentially catastrophic risk.
If the road is wide enough I don't bother and remain in secondary but even then,on occasion I've seen some near misses with vehicles overtaking me(giving me more than ample space but very little room for error between theirs and oncoming vehicles.
It really is bizarre and I really struggle to understand such mentality.
I also have noted there's no single type of driver,say young and inexperienced but it seems to be across the board ie; the Fiesta R/Rover incident was a chap of about 60 with presumably his wife sat beside him,nor was he speeding

Re: Not your usual "Cyclists Dismount" sign!

12 June 2014 - 5:53pm
iviehoff wrote: Clearly some people have no idea at all what they are looking at even though they are in the country and seeing the language regularly. Sadly, that is the common arrogance of many English speakers, even English speakers resident/born in Wales.
It doesn't strike me as arrogance. Having 2 languages serves little purpose if everybody is expected to be able to use both. You might as well just have one if that were the case, the second would be superfluous. My relative in Monmouth feels as much of an obligation to learn Welsh as I, or anyone else in Vancouver, felt to learn French. If anybody wishes to learn a language or needs to learn a language or is in a predominantly welsh-speaking community then that is fair enough but I don't think it's right to criticise as arrogant those who never bother to learn a language for which they have little use.

Re: Not your usual "Cyclists Dismount" sign!

12 June 2014 - 4:47pm
Has anybody noticed that the English version is pretty dumb?

If you look at what it actually says you will get off your bike and wonder "what happens next?"

Something like "cyclists walk here" or "cyclists push here" would make sense and probably is quite easy to say in Welsh.

Re: Not your usual "Cyclists Dismount" sign!

12 June 2014 - 4:40pm
661-Pete wrote:If sign painters, working in the country where Welsh is an official language, have to resort to Google Translate or whatever, what does this say about the state of affairs?
Does this happen in other countries where the official language is spoken regularly only by a minority (Ireland for example)?
I was in NW Wales recently, in the area where most people speak Welsh as vernacular, and came across a few signs whose English translation left something to be desired.

I've seen some pretty questionable English on signs in Ireland too.

I expect they don't have to resort to Google Translate, though it would be better if they could actually use it competently. Google Tr suggests "beicwyr oddi ar y beic", which translated back comes to "cyclists off bike", which I think would do pretty well if we didn't have "dismount" in English. I expect they use Google translate because they just need something good enough and don't want to bother/pay for the translation service they would use for something more important. Even then there was the famous case where someone asked a translator, got an "out of office" email, and put the wording of that onto a sign. Clearly some people have no idea at all what they are looking at even though they are in the country and seeing the language regularly. Sadly, that is the common arrogance of many English speakers, even English speakers resident/born in Wales.

Re: Not your usual "Cyclists Dismount" sign!

12 June 2014 - 4:22pm
Ben@Forest wrote:Welsh is not a particularly good living language. I remember hearing a Welsh speaker say how wonderful it was that they were still using a language that hadn't changed since the 13th century - which sounds great until you realise it would mean in English we'd all be going around talking like the characters in the Canterbury Tales. And in the 13th century dismounting a bike was not a big talking point for Welsh speakers - but it does make you wonder how they ever described getting off a horse.
This is nonsense. The language has continued to be used as vernacular, and languages used as vernacular always assimilate the change necessary to make them adequate to the situation. If you have ever seen bilingual signs in English and German, you will realise that sometimes some languages seem to take a lot of time to say certain common things, but this doesn't make them "not very good" languages. Welsh has even quite noticeably changed since the 1960s edition of Teach Yourself Welsh I once owned, if you compare that with a modern tutor. Similar claims about Icelandic being just like it was 800 years ago are sometimes made, but not by anyone who has ever compared the original texts of Icelandic sagas with translations into modern Icelandic. Icelandic has retained certain grammatical features of old Norse that continental Scandinavian languages have lost, thus making it easier for Icelandic people to pick up the grammar of Old Norse, but it doesn't mean that Old Norse at all mutually comprehensible with modern Icelandic, or that Icelandic is in any sense a language in which it is "difficult" to express modern ideas. Likewise Welsh people who do have indeed read mediaeval Welsh/Icelandic know that it is about as difficult as Chaucer to read for an Englishman.

I met an Argentinean native Welsh speaker once - Welsh is still spoken as vernacular in a few places in Argentina resulting from some Welsh colonies in the 19th century, though it is dying out. She had visited Wales and could attest that the Welsh spoken in Argentina is quite materially different from that spoken in Wales. She claimed that her Welsh was more conservative than the Welsh spoken in Wales, though most people tend to think their own form of the language is more "authentic".

Re: Thirst Whilst Cycling

12 June 2014 - 4:14pm
There is an article about drinking and cycling in this months Cycling Health and Fitness.

My OH downloads it for free by inputting 'cycling health and fitness pdf' into google.

Re: Motorcycle Noise

12 June 2014 - 3:53pm
mill4six wrote:Unfortunately noise can be fun, sorry. I'm all growed up now and have become quite sensible but sometimes I retrace old routes where I used to come screaming through with a carbon fibre exhaust on, bouncing off the rev limiter and the rear wheel skipping on the downshifts and I wonder how I survived. In a sense that person has gone now but I remember him and he was having a whale of a time.

Fun for the rider perhaps, but unpleasant for everyone within earshot. It's possible to have fun without annoying lots of other people.
Loud exhausts on motorbikes (and indeed on cars) are just obnoxious.

Re: Is this level of insanity commonplace?

12 June 2014 - 2:53pm
Assumption that it's always possible to overtake a cyclist within the lane, if only that pesky cyclist wasn't being selfish and riding in the middle of the road.
Going past a bicycle isn't really overtaking and they are so slow that it doesn't matter if there is oncoming traffic or not.

Re: Not your usual "Cyclists Dismount" sign!

12 June 2014 - 2:49pm
Bicycler wrote:'Cyclists dismount is an awkward sentence to translate as there is no Welsh word for dismount,' he added.

'But the correct translation would be something like dim beicio, which means literally no cycling, or man disgyn i feicwyr, which means fall-off area for cyclists.


Welsh is not a particularly good living language. I remember hearing a Welsh speaker say how wonderful it was that they were still using a language that hadn't changed since the 13th century - which sounds great until you realise it would mean in English we'd all be going around talking like the characters in the Canterbury Tales. And in the 13th century dismounting a bike was not a big talking point for Welsh speakers - but it does make you wonder how they ever described getting off a horse.

Re: Not your usual "Cyclists Dismount" sign!

12 June 2014 - 2:16pm
661-Pete wrote:There's a serious side to all this - just how much of a 'living' language is Welsh?

If sign painters, working in the country where Welsh is an official language, have to resort to Google Translate or whatever, what does this say about the state of affairs?
That not all sign makers are bilingual? Welsh is spoken regularly by a significant proportion of Welsh people but there are huge regional variations (EDIT: in the proportion of people who primarily speak welsh not in the language itself). Having one or more official national languages which aren't commonly heard in a particular area but are used on all official documentation is common in many countries. I lived in British Columbia (Canada) for a while. Everything was bi-lingual English/French despite virtually no-one there having French as their first language. I suggest that having multiple national languages only seems odd if you come from somewhere with just one.

Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

12 June 2014 - 2:14pm
mjr wrote:Riding against traffic in a unidirectional lane is called salmon-ing by some and often results when inadequate highway designers put a cycle lane on only one side, with no markings or positive instruction in the other direction.
Also when there's a fairly short cycle lane that takes you from where you are to where you want to go against the traffic - you'd use the one on the other side of the road but for 100m it isn't worthwhile and would require crossing a dual carriageway twice.
(Or at least that's why I've done it in the past, not that any other cyclists seem to use it - and it does annoy car drivers although you've got to wonder why...)

New Darwin award contestant

12 June 2014 - 2:13pm
USA, but suspect prevalent here - love the police seatbelt quote

Archive

  • Patron: Her Majesty The Queen
  • President: Jon Snow
  • Chief Executive: Paul Tuohy
  • Cyclists' Touring Club (CTC): A company limited by guarantee, registered in England no.25185. Registered as a charity in England and Wales No 1147607 and in Scotland No SC042541

 

Terms and Conditions