CTC Forum - On the road

Syndicate content
Discussion boards hosted by CTC, the national cycling charity
Updated: 2 hours 25 min ago

Re: ASL and motorcyclists

15 January 2015 - 11:27am
meic wrote:In order to turn left at the end of a traffic line, I would filter on the left hand side, correctly for a short distance (or incorrectly as I had my naughty side too) for a long distance. Though in practice it was all very opportunistic taking whichever option came along. Ending up on the right when intending turning left would have been as a result of a failure to manage what I should have done and I may have very sheepishly crossed the white line and gone across the front of the traffic to get myself out of a mess.

Why is it a failure? You may have overtaken several hundred yards of stationary vehicles with no opportunity to move across - plus IME filtering on the inside is a big NO. I'm unsure how you can consider it to be safer - I try to avoid it even on a bicycle!
meic wrote:Also I disagree on moral grounds about queue jumping, my whole self justification for filtering is that I will continue to ride "apart" from the queuing traffic.
You're fooling yourself. Seriously, are you claiming that once you start you filtering you never rejoin traffic flow?
It's queue jumping, pure and simple.
However what is interesting is that most motorists don't see it as queue jumping, precisely because you don't get in their way. Do it on a bicycle though and most think it is...

Re: ASL and motorcyclists

15 January 2015 - 11:20am
It is over thirty years since I took my advanced test. I dont know if they have relaxed the standards since then but crossing the white line would be a certain fail. Going up the right hand side of the traffic, expecting to do a left hook turning left in front of them would have you put in for some severe remedial instruction.

I do KNOW very much that the AIM is not the be all and end all of all motorcycling good practice but it was in my case taught and examined by Police Class 1 riders.

In order to turn left at the end of a traffic line, I would filter on the left hand side, correctly for a short distance (or incorrectly as I had my naughty side too) for a long distance. Though in practice it was all very opportunistic taking whichever option came along. Ending up on the right when intending turning left would have been as a result of a failure to manage what I should have done and I may have very sheepishly crossed the white line and gone across the front of the traffic to get myself out of a mess.

In short as another experienced motorcyclist, I do not feel that the safety excuse is acceptable as a justification for such acts. Also I disagree on moral grounds about queue jumping, my whole self justification for filtering is that I will continue to ride "apart" from the queuing traffic. It would be quite understandable of cars to react aggressively to queue jumping. Then we just get a white line jumping race where everyone gets as far forward as possible to prevent somebody leap frogging them.

No, I much prefer where we have a white line drawn for people to stop at and for the Police to prosecute those who cross it.

Re: Vomit-inducing content from the Guardian

15 January 2015 - 11:19am
A bike in the back of a volvo estate....Well at least you can recycle the packaging.....

Re: Vomit-inducing content from the Guardian

15 January 2015 - 10:59am
I guess that it depends on how you do it - have you read Cycling World?

Re: Vomit-inducing content from the Guardian

15 January 2015 - 10:52am
horizon wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/hibernot-outdoor-adventures/2015/jan/13/winter-on-two-wheels-how-to-cycle-through-the-weather
...
The articles are written by Land Rover but made to look like Guardian output.
...
I thought there were strict rules about identifying "advertisements" as opposed to normal content. And I read bits and it seems like an advert, yet I could notice nothing identifying it as such.

Ian

Re: ASL and motorcyclists

15 January 2015 - 10:49am
meic wrote:I have a similar mileage on motorcycles and I have always stopped alongside vehicles when there was room at the white line. The only incident I ever had was when a car crept forward and parked on my foot. If they started engine revving and preparing to race, I would match them with the posing then let them race off and slip into the gap behind them.

You assume the guy behind doesn't also want to partake of a bit of Traffic Light Grand Prix. Wouldn't be the first time - wouldn't be the first time I've seen a bike rear ended by another overexcited motorcyclist who was sat behind and thought they too would whizz off the line.
Then of course there's the left turn - how do you turn left when you're sat alongside the right side of a car? (I'm assuming you haven't filtered along the left), obviously the 'correct' thing to do is to sit there with your left indicator on and rely on the good nature of your fellow motorists - I'm sure that works at least 80% of the time.

No sorry, I'm pretty certain the safest place to be is at the front of the queue directly in front of the lead vehicle.
meic wrote:You are a bit of a habitual RLJ and I am a bit of a habitual obeyer of red lights. I dispute that the safety issue is strong enough to justify breaking the law and then taking advantage of such an illegal move to position yourself infront of the vehicle at the front of the queue.

A manoeuvre that I see performed by police motorcyclists all the time and one I've performed when there's been a police car at the front. I've never been prosecuted yet so I'm inclined to assume that it's probably less of an issue than you seem to want to make it.
meic wrote:If the act of filtering is to have legitimacy for motorcyclists it should not be a form of queue jumping where you position yourself in the car drivers path but a parallel system where you keep to your own interstitial lane out of their way.

Sorry, but that's nonsense. Filtering IS queue jumping by virtue of the fact you don't stay in a your self made lane but re-enter traffic flow further up. That's the whole point of it.
meic wrote:cyclists should receive preferential treatment to help alleviate the problems caused by motor vehicles.
Hmmm, I think I'd be inclined to disagree with that as a statement. I think cyclists should receive preferential treatment to improve their safety and to make them 'competitive' as a form of transport, not sure how that squares with "problems caused by motor vehicles".

Re: Vomit-inducing content from the Guardian

15 January 2015 - 10:37am
There was an ad for a whacking great Volvo estate a few years ago with a bike laid out full-length in the back.

Ooh, tempting.

I just mean the available space, rather than an alluring bike stretched out before me.

Re: ASL and motorcyclists

15 January 2015 - 10:32am
IME the one thing you should never do unless forced to is stop alongside a vehicle, whether you're on a motorcycle or a bicycle.

I have a similar mileage on motorcycles and I have always stopped alongside vehicles when there was room at the white line. The only incident I ever had was when a car crept forward and parked on my foot. If they started engine revving and preparing to race, I would match them with the posing then let them race off and slip into the gap behind them.

You are a bit of a habitual RLJ and I am a bit of a habitual obeyer of red lights. I dispute that the safety issue is strong enough to justify breaking the law and then taking advantage of such an illegal move to position yourself infront of the vehicle at the front of the queue.
If the act of filtering is to have legitimacy for motorcyclists it should not be a form of queue jumping where you position yourself in the car drivers path but a parallel system where you keep to your own interstitial lane out of their way.

The situation is a little different on a cycle, pragmatically because you lack the speed and acceleration and morally because cyclists should receive preferential treatment to help alleviate the problems caused by motor vehicles.

Re: Vomit-inducing content from the Guardian

15 January 2015 - 9:57am
They're promoting cycling right? Why is that a bad thing?
If other (more) vehicle manufacturers did that then I suspect we would see more motorists taking to their bikes and the more cyclists we have in the UK, the more people the government have to please with more decent cycling infrastructure. We might also conclude that as more motorists take to their bikes, they might finally get it through their thick skulls why close passes and other crap/selfish driving is so dangerous.
My only hybrid was a Landrover too

Re: Vomit-inducing content from the Guardian

15 January 2015 - 9:16am
Where do you put the feed sacks and hay bales?

Re: Vomit-inducing content from the Guardian

15 January 2015 - 2:01am
land-alfdb268-001.jpg

Re: ASL and motorcyclists

15 January 2015 - 1:30am
[XAP]Bob wrote:But to be obliged to stop where it wouldn't be normal, and actively prevents someone else from taking the position ascribed to them for safety reasons is somewhat perverse.

I would say that it passively prevents others from taking their chosen position. Also it is perfectly normal for me to stop at the white line for traffic lights and always has been.

There are many occasions when it may be good if people actively disobeyed the law in preference to the more dangerous option that normally occurs (but shouldnt) such as crossing double white lines while overtaking, or going the wrong side of central reservations instead of squeezing through.
Yet we do have the laws and should default towards obeying them.

Vomit-inducing content from the Guardian

15 January 2015 - 12:54am
http://www.theguardian.com/hibernot-out ... he-weather

As a lifelong Guardian reader, I'm entitled to rage over the shallow rubbish that Land Rover can pump out under the Guardian banner as a consequence of their having bought their way into the brand. I understand why Land Rover might wish to buy their way into the healthy outdoor lifestyle ethos (after all, who would want to sit in a traffic jam in an overheated two ton lump of metal and glass?) but I'm flabbergasted that the Guardian just roll over and let them do it. The articles are written by Land Rover but made to look like Guardian output. So, yes everybody, let's "strap our bikes to a Land Rover" and get out into the Great Outdoors. If you are not killed by one of their products in the meantime.

Re: ASL and motorcyclists

15 January 2015 - 12:27am
beardy, no blame from me for taking the legal option, or the considerate option when they differ. Personally, I'd prefer they took the safe (for them) option so long as it was either legal or considerate.

Re: ASL and motorcyclists

15 January 2015 - 12:14am
But to be obliged to stop where it wouldn't be normal, and actively prevents someone else from taking the position ascribed to them for safety reasons is somewhat perverse.

Re: ASL and motorcyclists

15 January 2015 - 12:11am
Unless you can see that the entire route of your planned filter is clear, then that is a choice that you make when you start filtering, to go into the uncertain. You can not blame somebody just for being there (legally) in your way. Next it will be anger at people being in the way when they feel obliged to obey the speed limit.
That is rather like expecting cyclists to ride illegally on the pavement to aid traffic flow. In all my years of filtering, it has never crossed my mind to blame somebody for filtering ahead of me in my way and for stopping where I would continue.

Re: ASL and motorcyclists

14 January 2015 - 11:31pm
It's better for a motorbike to enter an ASL than block the filtering gaps preventing cyclists filtering up.

It's common to have a choice between doing what's legal, safe, and considerate when on two wheels. I've often been stuck behind a motorbike when filtering when they chose legal over safe and considerate.

Then there's the packs of motorbikes that speed from ASL to ASL rendering them useless for cyclists.

Re: ASL and motorcyclists

14 January 2015 - 3:02pm
I also ride a motorcycle as well as bicycle.
A couple of points regarding ASL in general and motorcyclists.

It was my understand that the CTC did a freedom of information search and no police force had ever issued a fine for a motor vehicle entering an ASL, the Met didn't even know it was an offence.

I do object when I'm in an ASL box and a motorcyclist filters down the right and then positions themselves in front of me. Not because they are causing me an obstruction but thier exhaust is now pumping fumes straight inot my face.

I was once sitting at a junction in the centre of an ASL and a motorcyclist pulled up on my right. When the lights went green we both moved forward. However I was going straight on but he want to go left (and wasn't indicating) we almost collided had to stop and he almost fell of his bike. He was adamant including a lot of expletives that what he had done was reasonable and I my riding had been outragous.

Re: Front lights that are too bright

14 January 2015 - 2:15pm
SleepyJoe wrote:I have had problems with other cyclists with over bright/no cut off lights on my commute along a cycle track a couple of times.
When they come towards you, I can't see a thing until they are past. However, I can normally see whether there are any pedestrians around before they get too close and I usually hold my hand up to shield my eyes.
I have also had a problem with a cyclist drafting me with a very bright front light. I cast a big shadow in front of myself with a very bright outer edge. It was very hard to see the path ahead of me even with my bright (but cut off) cycle lights. I should have slowed down and let him go past but that is hard to do......
I can understand why people want to see where they are going but for road/cycle path use, you should have either a horizontal cut off of the beam at about waist high or a dipped beam option. Anything else is just inconsiderate
Mark

I've had the same experience. Bright lights can be very dangerous all round in inconsiderate hands.

Re: Front lights that are too bright

14 January 2015 - 2:00pm
Regarding dipping of cycle lamps: mine is only secured to the handlebar with a rubber ring, so I can 'dip' it merely by pressing it forward with my thumb. Not as effective as a car's dipped beams, because the light spread from my lamp is quite wide with no cut-off, but no-one's complained yet when I do it.

Archive

  • Patron: Her Majesty The Queen
  • President: Jon Snow
  • Chief Executive: Paul Tuohy
  • Cyclists' Touring Club (CTC): A company limited by guarantee, registered in England no.25185. Registered as a charity in England and Wales No 1147607 and in Scotland No SC042541

Copyright © CTC 2015

Terms and Conditions