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Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

16 March 2015 - 1:02pm
Anyone travelling at 41mph in an environment where 20mph or less is the norm is a hazard to themselves and others. I don't know the place, but if it really does feel like what I understand by the word "park", 41mph would feel intimidating to pedestrians and horse riders (if horses are permitted).

I leave it to others to tease out the legal stuff.

Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

16 March 2015 - 12:46pm
gaz wrote:gaz wrote:I do not know whether Rory Palmer received any legal advice before choosing to enter a guilty plea.

Some reports suggest he was defended: http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... YqOy5GG.99

Mutahir Ahmed, defending, told the Magistrates Court: “Cycling is his hobby and he understands how dangerous it was. It was a windy day and he was coming down the hill. He did realise at the time he was going above 20mph but did not have a speedometer.”

Since Mr Palmer appears to have entered a guilty plea, in terms of "defending" I can only think it was a statement in mitigation made on his behalf before sentencing. However as someone was there to defend him it seems reasonable that he had advice to enter a guilty plea.

It would be interesting to know what the exact charge was although had it been "furious riding" I'd expect the press would have enjoyed including that bit of colour in the story.
IANAL but it is quite clear the charge would have been associated with breach of Royal Parks regulations: whether you are prosecuted directly for the breach, or indirectly in the form of failing to pay the charge/fine/penalty for breach, I cannot say.

This was not a public road so the charge of riding furiously is not applicable. In the only known recent prosecution for riding furiously, in Cambridge, it was not alleged that the cyclist was breaking the vehicular speed limit, indeed even the police witness did not assert it. Some have suggested that the case was mainly about some plod's nose being put out of joint over something.

Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

16 March 2015 - 12:14pm
gaz wrote:I do not know whether Rory Palmer received any legal advice before choosing to enter a guilty plea.

Some reports suggest he was defended: http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... YqOy5GG.99

Mutahir Ahmed, defending, told the Magistrates Court: “Cycling is his hobby and he understands how dangerous it was. It was a windy day and he was coming down the hill. He did realise at the time he was going above 20mph but did not have a speedometer.”

Since Mr Palmer appears to have entered a guilty plea, in terms of "defending" I can only think it was a statement in mitigation made on his behalf before sentencing. However as someone was there to defend him it seems reasonable that he had advice to enter a guilty plea.

It would be interesting to know what the exact charge was although had it been "furious riding" I'd expect the press would have enjoyed including that bit of colour in the story.

Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

16 March 2015 - 11:52am
ANTONISH wrote:[quote="[XAP]Bob]I'd assert that a sprint finish on the TdF is rather different to a road through a park.
41 mph? I'd assert that the outcome would be remarkably similar.

Yes, the outcome could be similar - but it would be similar if a pedestrian stepped in front of a car as well...

This is a *road* we are looking at, not a park path.

Re: Red Blob to Blue Blob

16 March 2015 - 10:54am
County? County? You'll have the Meybyon Kernow knocking on your door!

Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

16 March 2015 - 10:12am
nathb wrote:Interestingly:
The speed limits in Royal Parks are also intended for motor vehicles only. According to: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010 ... ion/1/made

I'm not going to go through the various enactments RP regs and their amendments all over again, but I have been through them before and I can assure you that, in addition to what you have located, there are elsewhere specific regs in relation to cycle speed limits.

Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

16 March 2015 - 9:21am
Interestingly:


The speed limits in Royal Parks are also intended for motor vehicles only. According to: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010 ... ion/1/made

Citation, Commencement and Interpretation
1.—(1) These Regulations may be cited as The Royal Parks and Other Open Spaces (Amendment) etc. Regulations 2010 and shall come into force for the purposes of regulations 1 to 4 on 6th April 2010 and for all other purposes on 1st October 2010.
(2) In these Regulations–
“parking permit” means a permit issued by or on behalf of the Secretary of State for the parking of a vehicle;
“parking place” means a place shown on a notice exhibited by or on behalf of the Secretary of State as being appointed under these Regulations as a place where a person may park a vehicle; and
“vehicle” means a mechanically propelled vehicle intended or adapted for use on a road. .

So maybe it was purely the act of overtaking vehicles in silly places at speed which landed him in court, and the officers were there to laser cars...

Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

16 March 2015 - 9:18am
[quote="[XAP]Bob]I'd assert that a sprint finish on the TdF is rather different to a road through a park.
41 mph? I'd assert that the outcome would be remarkably similar.

Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

16 March 2015 - 8:53am
I don't think courts have the power to endorse driving licences beyond the schedule 2 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/schedule/2

Section 146 of the Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000 created a power to disqualify a defendant convicted of any offence, the main restriction being that the court in question had to have been authorised to use the power

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/6/section/146

I've no idea what the present situation is with that.

Cycling furiously has been discussed at some length before.

Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

16 March 2015 - 8:38am
It has always been possible for cyclists to be prosecuted (like motorists) for riding too fast. It is rare, but it does happen. On normal highways the prosecution would be for *riding furiously", the cycling equivalent of "driving without due care and attention". And I have heard that if caught, you can have points put on your driving licence!. Anyone know if that is correct?

Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

16 March 2015 - 8:09am
The point is that you know if you are going well over 20mph (certainly if you are doing 40+). You don't need electronics....

Re: Red Blob to Blue Blob

16 March 2015 - 6:25am
As I couldn't find anything online, I bought a foldable AtoZ map of Cornwall and used a highlighter pen. It wasn't many months and the paper map started to become a bit tattered and torn.

I found a free download of OS GB road atlas. I don't know where I got it, and I've looked since and can't work out where.
I still have the whole thing, but only use the Cornwall sections.

I downloaded a free painting program and open up the sections of map and "ink" in the roads as I do them. There's no way that I can do every single road/lane/street, but I can manage to do every decent road to cover the county in a cobweb of black ink.

This is a section of SE Cornwall (where we live). This is the standard of coverage I want to do all over the county.SE Cornwall.png

Re: Taking a bike on a train

16 March 2015 - 12:19am
karlt wrote:I've had no problems either - Northern trains, Virgin, East Midlands. The latter has the bikes in a compartment marked "private" but apart from that logical fail I have no problems on peak time trains between Chesterfield and Sheffield.

No problems for me either. I generally find the process quite stressful, but never had a problem, including travelling to the start and from the end of a LEJoG. I often use the Stevenage/Peterborough/Kings Lynn bit of the network for Sunday jaunts, and find it very user friendly.

Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

15 March 2015 - 9:16pm
gaz wrote:hondated wrote:... how I could I possibly know how fast I was cycling without having a cycle conputer of some description.
It's not a question of knowing how fast you are cycling, just a question of staying under the limit. Rather like when you have a lager and lime without access to a breathalyser. You don't know what your breath alcohol content is but you are confident that it's under the limit. Where a speed limit applies ride at a speed you are confident is within the limit.

In any case so long as you are pedaling you can calculate your speed. Speed(mph) = Gear(inches) × Cadence (rpm) ÷ 336. Admittedly this is not the easiest thing to do in your head and trying to do the math with pencil and paper whilst riding is also not to be recommended.

If you're freewheeling then you should know the circumference of your front wheel, count the rpm and work it out from there . I'd imagine this becomes much harder after a lager and lime .
gaz with respect your talking to an ex secondary modern boy here not one who went to a grammar school.

" conputer " was that a Freudian slip !

Re: ASL fixed penalty

15 March 2015 - 6:25pm
snibgo wrote:Enforcement is currently done with a detector loop under the road after the second stop line, and a camera pointing at that area. These could be moved to the first stop line. Technically, not difficult.

It would take motorists some time to realise that a red light means "don't cross the first stop line". Judging by cases on Pepipoo, motorists often don't realise that the stop line defines the offence. (I could say something similar about many cyclists.)

And of course the loop knows whether it was activated before/after the light turned red...

I imagine I'd have a few photo's taken (since I'm set up to trigger said loops) but it should be fairly easy to adjust the sensitivity - they manage it on various traffic light controlled junctions

Re: Red Blob to Blue Blob

15 March 2015 - 6:22pm
Strava does a heat map (premium feature, so I have no idea what it looks like)

But yes, a "multiple GPX upload" painting of a map should be possible...

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