CTC Forum - On the road

Syndicate content
Discussion boards hosted by CTC, the national cycling charity
Updated: 1 hour 1 min ago

Re: Pulled Over By The Police

16 September 2014 - 8:42am
TonyR wrote:Cunobelin wrote:I have had this discussion, then asked for a fixed penalty...

That rather put the policeman on their back foot.

He said that he wished to give me a verbal warning, and when I explained that I required the ticket so I could appeal as he was in the wrong, he was even more reluctant.

In the end I simply checked that he recorded the fact that he had stopped me giving time and date

A short letter later I had an apology that I should not have been stopped, had done nothing wrong and that the officer had been made aware of his error


Reminds me of this wonderful story from a police officer on uk.rec.cycling a few years ago:

Whilst indulging in a spot of the obligatory DIY today I discovered I
needed few more bits and bobs, blowtorch, flux, joints etc...
I could not get the car out for a 'quick' 6 miles to the shop as the
community skip lorry was doing its thing so I took the jolly old - new -
racing bike for a spin.
Flashing along and wanting to turn right over the bridge system I
crossed the four lanes to take up position for the giratory road system.
Pulled up at the lights and waited, not bothered by and not bothering
anybody when up pulls a plod car, the window goes down on the drivers
side and a head pops out.

Young Plod - "Nice bike you've got there"
Me - "Yes"
Young Plod - "Going out for a ride"
Me - "Yes"
Young Plod - "Where you going"
Me - "Over there"
Young Plod - "You know your in the wrong lane"
Me - "Hows that"
Young Plod - "You should be over there" - Points to the near side lane
four over.
Me - "Can't turn right from there"
Young Plod - "It's dangerous to ride your bike in this lane"
Me - "Be a lot more dangerous turning right from over there"
Young Plod - "Is it yours"
Me - "What"
Young Plod - "The bike"
Me - "Yes"
Young Plod - "Your not wearing cycling clothing"
Me - "No" - wearing old combats, boots and sweatshirt, very dirty as had
been crawling around under the floorboards.
Young Plod - "Your not wearing a helmet either"
Me - "No"
Young Plod - "Just pull up over there for me"
Me - "Why"
Young plod - "I want a word with you"
Me - "What for"
Young Plod - "Don't argue"
Me - "About what"

At this point young plod had had enough and tripped his blue lights...

Young Plod - "get off"
Me - Feeling a bit like finding out how far he would go - "Have I done
something wrong"
Young Plod - "Like I said your in the wrong lane"
Me - "Is that a road traffic offence" - he should have picked up on this!
Young Plod - "Yes"
Me - "Oh" - Get off bike

Young Plod then gets out of car and tells me how he could do me for
dangerous cycling and how I should be wearing a cycle helmet.

Me - "Is that the law then - cycle helmets"
Young Plod - "No but its a lot safer"
Me - "There's never been a study that proved that you know"
Young Plod - "I cycle and I always wear a helmet"
Me - "That's your choice"
Young Plod - "Your not taking this very seriously"
Me - "Aren't I"
Young Plod - "Right - Lets see what you think about getting a fine for
dangerous cycling"
Me - "Your going to give me a ticket"
Young Plod - "I might if you continue like this"
Me - "Am I riding dangerously then"
Young Plod - "Yes"
Me - "How"
Young Plod - "You shouldn't be in the outside lane you should turn right
from the nearside kerb"
Me - "Oh, does it say that in the Road Traffic Act then"
Young Plod - "Do you have any ID"
Me - "What for"
Young Plod - "Because I asked you"
Me - "Are you going to give me a ticket then"
Young Plod - "I've had enough of this what's your name"
Me - "******"
Young Plod - "What do you do for a living"
Me - "I train people"
Young Plod - "Who for"
Me - "The police"
Young Plod - "Oh"
Me - "Does that make a difference"
Young Plod - "Err"
Me - "Do I get a copy of a stop form then"
Young Plod -"Err"
Me - "I really think I should get a copy of a stop form"
Young Plod -"Do we need to do that"
Me - "Yes"
Young Plod - writes out stop form - Name?
Me - "Sgt..."
Young Plod - Finishes the stop form - hands it to me
Me - "Next time you think of abusing your powers you might like to think
about who your talking to first"
Young Plod -"Yes Sarge"
Me - "Do I need to write to your skipper about this"
Young Plod - "No Sarge"
Me - "You think you've learnt your lesson then"
Young Plod - "Yes Sarge"
Me - "You think I should let you get away with this then"
Young Plod - "I think I made a mistake"
Me - "I think you did"
Young Plod - "Are you going to write to my Sergeant then Sarge"
Me - "I think he needs to know, don't you"
Me - "I'll tell you what, You tell your Sergeant and get them to call me
later"
Young Plod - "Yes Sergeant"
Me - "Be sure you do - or I will be writing officially"
Young Plod - "Yes Sergeant" Gets back in car and drives off.

Had chat with female sergeant later - turns out he did tell her and got
bulled for his actions.

Obviously the above is not a word for word but it's pretty close.

It was that experience that inspired me to ask for the ticket

Re: Pulled Over By The Police

16 September 2014 - 6:39am
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:All my life i have heard the words Optimist / Pessimist, they use optimist to describe themselves in good light, pessimist is normally used as a joke on self or a jibe at others.

I'm a pessimist. Pessimists are happy people. Things usually turn out much better for them than expected whereas optimists............

Re: Why do we do it?

16 September 2014 - 1:20am
If you were driving properly and couldn't have seen the cyclist then the cyclist would be at fault. You ought to be able to claim any damages from the cyclist or their insurance company.

Without wishing to condone illegal behaviour, I suspect that even where people choose to ignore the law they tend to be sufficiently aware of their surroundings not to ride into danger. This would explain why these manoeuvers don't seem to result in many cyclist casualties despite reportedly being such a common occurrence. Really a cyclist is in a much better position to observe and proceed with caution than a car driver and I can certainly see why some believe that cyclists should be able to treat red signals effectively as give way markings and proceed where they can see that it is safe to do so. Signals generally exist to maintain traffic flow, something which is rather irrelevant to a cyclist.

BTW, I had a brew sat outside a café the other day with a clear view of one part of a traffic light controlled junction. In twenty or thirty minutes there I saw two cyclists who jumped the red or amber lights...


...and 53 drivers.

We see what we want to see

Re: Why do we do it?

16 September 2014 - 12:28am
Waiting at a red (traffic) light, overtaken by another bike whose rider happily pedalled across the junction - having nearly knocked me off my bike, and with no clear view to her right 'cos of the flatbed tranny next to us.

Caught up with her at the next red light, and asked why she ignored the previous one "There was nothing coming" - "But you couldn't see" - "I could hear there was nothing coming". She departed - again across the red light - as I was informing her that she wouldn't hear my mate's Toyota Prius until it hit her ...

Few weeks later - stopped at red light, a pedestrian crossing this time, near New St station. Another cyclist (another female) went past , ignoring the red light and the people on the crossing.

Is it me?

If I'm in the car, and someone pedals across a red light while I'm turning on green, and I don't see him/her in time 'cos they appear from behind a vehicle - who is at fault, me or the cyclist? And if (hopefully) there is no injury to the cyclist, who pays for the damage to my car? Would I be just another mad car driver knocking cyclists over to get points, or what? And if I take avoiding action to miss the cyclist and collide with another vehicle as a result, what then?

Re: Pulled Over By The Police

15 September 2014 - 11:46pm
I've yet to be stopped at night whilst cycling in my black jacket and dark blue bib shorts or black longs...I don't expect to be stopped tbh, if I were and told I'm confusing things/making the road 'dangerous' somehow because I'm not wearing a helmet or hi-vis/light coloured clothing then I've got a full and ready answer for them.
Starting with thanks for your misguided advice but I've broken no laws so I'm off.

What makes it so bloody difficult for other road users to spot that there's a cyclist ahead or to the side when they have lights on at night, the type/design alone is a massive giveaway all on its own. And how come in the OP's situation did the police think he was the danger? Utterly ridiculous They mean that though they seemed to see him ok and stop him and found he wasn't breaking any laws they had to concoct some BS to cover the fact they can't be arris'd to police the roads and ensure that drivers what can't be bothered to look more than a few feet ahead and drive taking due care of other road users are stopped and pulled over..bunch of lazy, biased no-nowt idiots

Re: More Dawes bashing?

15 September 2014 - 9:33pm
I'd agree with that too. I know Dawes are popular with many people on here, but sorry, they are not what they once were, even 10-15 years ago. And they've always been a mid range company in what they produce, occasionally producing something that does look a bit sharper. The original Ultra Galaxy was one of those IMO. It had good finishing kit and a nice matt metalic grey finish. It's ten years old this year.

LondonBikeCommuter wrote:CREPELLO wrote:Also, Ultergra hubs are 130 OLN road standard. Tourers use 135 MTB spec hubs. Anyway, aren't the hubs LX (which is 105 equivlent), so a little more than £60 a pair.

The rack wasn't a Blackburn? Is Tubus cro-mo steel no good to you?

You seem to be caught up on the 'mish mash' of components. Sometimes this results from pricing a bike to a price and because there is no drop-bar specific touring group set. As was said above, you could spec and fit a 9 speed MTB rear mech, but they aren't generally available now on the higher groupo's. Which is why Dawes fit the 105 with a 11?-30 cassette. And that is why I choose to build up my own tourer, complete with a wonderful mish-mash of parts

BTW, I'm sure the front badge wasn't peeling - it's hard plastic. Just the protective film you get on new stuff.

I've seen 3 2014 Ultra Galaxy's and I can tell you the Dawes badge was peeling on all 3 and it had nothing to do with a protective film. I was so surprised I mentioned it here a while back and even took a photo. Well yes, I see what you mean. It wouldn't be a deal breaker, but perhaps it's a sign of the rough edges you often see on mass produced bikes.

With regards wheels I was expecting a fully loaded bike and a potentially heavy rider coupled to speed and dodgy roads that the Ultra Galaxy would have had better wheels....cyclocross standard?


Why would cyclocross wheels be a better choice? Cyclocross wheels come in different levels of quality and generally I'd say they aren't best suited for touring. They'll often come with 32 spokes, paired with rims that might be on the lighter side, whereas those Galaxy wheels will be alright, provided that the spokes are properly de-stressed and tensioned from new.

I've had a few Dawes bikes. My first - a 2002 Galaxy - didn't have properly finished wheels. I was lucky not to break any spokes. A shame really , because they had DT swiss spokes and Mavic T224 rims.

Regarding the difference between Tiagra and Ultegra, there's not a lot really. Ultegra may be slightly better finished (often not noticeable), Ultegra will deploy better bearings, which will last a little longer (depending on mileage), it will be marginally lighter. I've got Tiagra STI's on my tourer and I thing the shifting is sweet - a knife through butter feel. That's partly because they're cascaded down from old Ultegra tech.

Re: More Dawes bashing?

15 September 2014 - 9:02pm
I'd agree with that. Much more or any price around the Ultra's RRP and I'd be looking for something custom built. If I had that kind of money to spend on a bike I wouldn't accept compromises on important parts of the bike. For me compromises include things like road triples, 10spd gears and sti shifters. Obviously people want different things, but at £1800 I wouldn't want somebody else's idea of a touring bike.

Re: More Dawes bashing?

15 September 2014 - 9:02pm
- Removed double post -

Re: More Dawes bashing?

15 September 2014 - 8:46pm
LondonBikeCommuter wrote:Bicycler wrote:I would ignore the £1800 tag. Dawes are one of those brands where you can always save massively on their RRP
For those that know what, looking at the Ultra Galaxy would be a 'fair' price?
Spa have the 2013 at £1290 which looks like a good price to me.
http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php ... b0s21p2892
Seems to be the Dawes way - catch out some unwary buyers with latest model at daft prices which will be hugely reduced in a very short time but perhaps not available in the frame size you want.

Re: More Dawes bashing?

15 September 2014 - 6:35pm
CREPELLO wrote:Also, Ultergra hubs are 130 OLN road standard. Tourers use 135 MTB spec hubs. Anyway, aren't the hubs LX (which is 105 equivlent), so a little more than £60 a pair.

The rack wasn't a Blackburn? Is Tubus cro-mo steel no good to you?

You seem to be caught up on the 'mish mash' of components. Sometimes this results from pricing a bike to a price and because there is no drop-bar specific touring group set. As was said above, you could spec and fit a 9 speed MTB rear mech, but they aren't generally available now on the higher groupo's. Which is why Dawes fit the 105 with a 11?-30 cassette. And that is why I choose to build up my own tourer, complete with a wonderful mish-mash of parts

BTW, I'm sure the front badge wasn't peeling - it's hard plastic. Just the protective film you get on new stuff.

With regards wheels I was expecting a fully loaded bike and a potentially heavy rider coupled to speed and dodgy roads that the Ultra Galaxy would have had better wheels....cyclocross standard?

I think that the mish mash comment you make about hitting price points hits the nail on the head for me regarding concerns. The Ultra Galaxy shouldn't in my view be about cost it should be about the best touring bike money can buy and if it costs £2k or whatever then so be it. Yes the Galaxy, Galaxy plus etc can be about hitting price points not the Ultra.

Galaxy tourer, Blackburn racks, Brooks saddle its a heritage thing!

I've seen 3 2014 Ultra Galaxy's and I can tell you the Dawes badge was peeling on all 3 and it had nothing to do with a protective film. I was so surprised I mentioned it here a while back and even took a photo. The bar taping seemed a bit amateurish as well.

from a mate who recommended a Galaxy's Dropbox as my phone copy got deleted.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/qv39fd10v5hs ... 1zpBsO7rwa

Re: More Dawes bashing?

15 September 2014 - 6:10pm
Bicycler wrote:I would ignore the £1800 tag. Dawes are one of those brands where you can always save massively on their RRP
For those that know what, looking at the Ultra Galaxy would be a 'fair' price?

Re: More Dawes bashing?

15 September 2014 - 6:06pm
DaveGos wrote:
Ultegra is very high end and expensive , why do you want that

Seems the marketeers have got to you and you are more bothered about where the equipment is in the Shimano hierarchy rather than its functionality

Your almost certainly right in my ignorance I'm being a bit of a bike snob.

In my defense I'd say that a quality tourer will last decades so the extra cost of the group set is pretty insignificant and yet you get the benefit a high end product for decades.

Out of interest what is the difference between Tiagra and Ultegra from a cyclist POV?

Re: More Dawes bashing?

15 September 2014 - 6:06pm
An older one might have paired a road triple with a mtb cassette but that isn't an option with 10 speed and road STIs

Re: More Dawes bashing?

15 September 2014 - 6:01pm
Tiagra is a road triple so 50/39/30 so because lower gearing with the LX one they use I would expect that's why they chose than one.

Re: More Dawes bashing?

15 September 2014 - 5:56pm
honesty wrote:Shimano have in their wisdom removed triples from anything above tiagra so you just cannot do it.
Thanks, that's good to know as I was thinking of replacing my double with a triple on my commuter as I'd seen an Ultegra triple.

If there is a Tiagra triple is there a reason that Dawes don't use it?

Re: Biker's death filmed - horrific.

15 September 2014 - 5:14pm
On the subject of punishment for driving at 100mph, there's as case reported here involving three drivers doing a ton. (Apologies if anybody else has already linked to this on the forum.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-t ... l-29203943

One has already been fined a grand (no mention of disqualification) but another has been warned that he faces going down.

The sheriff said: "Any person who drives like this with young children in the car like you did faces potential imprisonment."

While I can see that it's wrong to jeopardise children in a car like this, the implication here is that risks to anybody else are somehow less reprehensible.

Re: Cycling on single-track roads

15 September 2014 - 4:20pm
I live on a single track lane where in a car you are scraping bits of hedge on both sides with a car until they cut them about now and that's 1 mile from Telford and less than 15 from the centre of Wolverhampton . The majority of roads from my experience in the country are single track. They are not the majority of roads that people drive on , cars get off them generally ASAP as you cannot maintain an average of over 30 mph with blind bends etc. Generally they are pretty quiet , I can go sometimes 10 mins without seeing a car , as I have said cars head for the main roads. I never stop for cars on such lanes , as they are generally only doing a mile or so on them before getting on the main road and if you live in the country you have to live with it. Loads of horses in my village , where you have to stop completely for a minute some time , also delivery vehicles just block the road sometimes. I will go to the side and wave them by without stopping if there is a suitable place. Half the time when they get in front , they only stop in front of you because of another car.

There is an attitude problem with the 4 wd brigade who generally seem to have low self esteem issues (thus the car) and have little control over there chimp as Steve Peters would says. Also farmers with or without tractors are an issue as they never seem to slow down with various wide vehicles. They seem to have the attitude its their working environment , but at one time it was horses and then tractors around the farm , now its massive tractors with massive trailers going 10s of miles and they have not adapted the rules because of the farming lobby

Re: More Dawes bashing?

15 September 2014 - 4:16pm
honesty wrote:On the crank, I believe components starting with 5 with 3 numbers are Deore level. So tiagra equivalent for mountain bike components. More than likely specced as the only trekking crank Shimano do. Deore is pretty standard in touring bikes.

As an aside spacycles.co.uk have a 2013 ultra galaxy for 1290 quid...

Shimano do a full range of trekking cranksets from Deore to XT (doubles and triples). Ignore UK shops for this kind of stuff as its very much a minority market here whereas its mainstream in Germany. Try Rose bikes, bike 24, fahrrad.de etc.

Re: Cycling on single-track roads

15 September 2014 - 4:00pm
Worst spot for me is Crow Lane from the back of Chesterfield station. It's single track and peaks at 15%, rising a total of 100' in about 1/4 of a mile. Going down it's a non-issue because you're only on the steep bit for about 10 seconds, but going up takes, well, a while... and at 5-6mph you get both the impatient driver behind and the oncoming one who can't be bothered to wait at the top. There are a couple of passing places and I try to point to them to tell the impatient they'll get a chance in a moment, but I'm buggered if I'm stopping because if I do I'm not sure I'll get started again.

I'm hoping that folk will realise that if they must use this route (wider roads are available, if a little longer) they risk getting stuck behind a cyclist. I will generally stop at the bottom if I can see someone at the top (the steep narrow bit is dead straight) and will also let any cars behind me go up first, but once I've started I'll finish.

Archive

  • Patron: Her Majesty The Queen
  • President: Jon Snow
  • Chief Executive: Paul Tuohy
  • Cyclists' Touring Club (CTC): A company limited by guarantee, registered in England no.25185. Registered as a charity in England and Wales No 1147607 and in Scotland No SC042541

 

Terms and Conditions