CTC Forum - On the road

Syndicate content
Discussion boards hosted by CTC, the national cycling charity
Updated: 31 min 5 sec ago

Re: Is it time for radicalism?

23 November 2014 - 6:19pm
I think the relevance of this:

reohn2 wrote:as a nation are simply not getting there and we'll not be getting there even more slowly until we see the folly of the unfettered and universal use of the private motor.

depends on your perspective.

Early in this government term David Cameron promised that the primary objective of government policy would be to increase GDP. The unfettered and universal use of the private motor car makes a massive contribution to GDP. It isn't good for human well-being but its very effective economically: purchase of cars, running costs, parking charges, healthcare spinoffs, road repairs and so on all make a big contribution to GDP. Look at the business that a serious road crash generates - tow trucks, car repairs, heath treatments, legal services, insurance claims & etc. And at consumer emporiums like Meadowhall - ok there's train, trams and buses but principally dedicated to getting people to cart consumer goods away by private car. All good for GDP. And then the more that people become tied to car use the more they depend on it. The more that people depend on it the less likely they are to upset the system with radicalism.

There's a common practice in modern politics of stating something regularly so that people eventually start to think they mean it even though they don't. Politicians might say that they support cycling but their actions show otherwise. Ultimately no political party can genuinely support cycling as a common form of transport in place of the private car while they're hung up on gdp.

Re: Using cycle paths

23 November 2014 - 6:05pm
Mick F wrote:..........Note the Dragon's Teeth and they expect cyclist to cross there!
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?........

I can understand the path not being upto spec for fast cycling but the crossing point is on a straight stretch of road,where anyone can see clearly both ways to cross when the road's clear enough to do so.
Unless I'm missing something

Re: Using cycle paths

23 November 2014 - 5:57pm
Bicycler wrote:Personally I think usage is a good test of cycle path quality. Cyclists will use whatever they feel is most convenient and safest. If cyclists don't use a piece of infrastructure, you need to question that infrastructure not the cyclists.

Agreed.
There are one or two cyclepaths locally that I have no problem with using because they're upto spec and more often than not clear of debris,just the occasional twig/small tree branch.
There is also one footpath,(by the side of a very busy A road)that I use which isn't a cyclepath but IMO should be as I've yet to see anyone walking on it,in over twenty years.

I've yet to see anyone motioning/gesticulating for me to get off the road onto a cyclepath.

Re: Using cycle paths

23 November 2014 - 5:46pm
ukdodger wrote:Tigerbiten wrote:I tend not to use cycle paths as I don't trust that I can on and off one safely where I want to and I can also get from one end to other on one without getting blocked by anti-cycling barriers/a post/ a narrow place/ etc/ etc.
My trouble is I ride something that's as non-standard as you can get, a recumbent trike towing a trailer behind it so it's 3 meters long and almost a meter wide.
The main time I do use them is going uphill when I'm going sub 5 mph, but I need to be able to get on it on the way up as I drop below 10 mph and leave it at the top safely as I pick up speed. so unless I ridden past the stretch and I know I can do that, I'll not use it unless I'm wanting to go slow.

Are you sure those barriers arent for motocyclists. I've not seen one for cyclists.

I'm not sure of the actual barriers in question but some that I/we've come across,you've a job to get a tandem through let alone a trike!
Whether they're for motorcycles or not,the effect is to stop anyone who's bike doesn't fit the neat little narrow package the 'designers' envisaged

Re: Using cycle paths

23 November 2014 - 5:04pm
Hi,
Mark1978 wrote:Which is why as discussed in the other thread we must have minimum standards before anything can be designated a cycle path.
But councils seem to to like using a bad footpath (pavement) and then eject you onto a busy road, I have had numerous problems with cyclist joining pavements when I am cycling on the road, pity that cyclist to get in the way of a car instead of me

And its your old inexperienced cyclist who have taken up the pastime and will follow the cycle path to the letter without a thought for its dangers.

One day soon a cyclist will be killed exiting / entering a pavement path and councils will retire from the promotion, through fear of law suits.
Contraflow cycle lanes on the road Torbay Council.

Re: Skateboarders v cyclists..amazing footage

23 November 2014 - 4:56pm
After looking at this video I watched a link to roller-man, I think he may be faster still, 126kph, on lots of 2" wheels
Cheers, Rob.

Re: Using cycle paths

23 November 2014 - 4:55pm
Hi,
binsted wrote:Ive given up on cycle paths UK, they are either a bad surface or covered in rubbish, leaves and overgrown hedges, add to that you have to contend with walkers and loose dogs and when they are tethered its usually on extender leads.

The roads are less of a hazard.
YES this is the point is'nt it.
If only those approving and posing for the local press would use the facilties they build their empires on.

Fact is it is'nt a law to cycle on the cycle paths when they are there instead of the highway so until the council bylaws say so, as the government will not waste time on the petty rambling of road users unless someone blocks the road and inconvienences another group that wont happen.

SO stay calm stay on line and when their actions endanger you stop and phone the police with thier number, but make sure you have twenty minutes of credit...............

I have on numerous occasions just kept on line as they then become a hazard to other road users comming the other way............

Re: Using cycle paths

23 November 2014 - 4:46pm
ukdodger wrote:Tigerbiten wrote:I tend not to use cycle paths as I don't trust that I can on and off one safely where I want to and I can also get from one end to other on one without getting blocked by anti-cycling barriers/a post/ a narrow place/ etc/ etc.
My trouble is I ride something that's as non-standard as you can get, a recumbent trike towing a trailer behind it so it's 3 meters long and almost a meter wide.
The main time I do use them is going uphill when I'm going sub 5 mph, but I need to be able to get on it on the way up as I drop below 10 mph and leave it at the top safely as I pick up speed. so unless I ridden past the stretch and I know I can do that, I'll not use it unless I'm wanting to go slow.

Are you sure those barriers aren't for motorcyclists. I've not seen one for cyclists.
If they stop me cycling, then they are anti-cycling barriers.
Most of the barriers I've seen are only really designed for standard DF bikes/MTB in mind.
So anyone on something non-standard (tandem, trike, DF with panniers/trailer, etc, etc) can/will have trouble with some/all of them.
It's not my fault that I'm got about the most non-standard rig out, the only rig more non-standard than mine that I've seen was a Greenspeed recumbent tandem trike and trailer on tour ..........

Re: Using cycle paths

23 November 2014 - 4:45pm
Bicycler wrote:I liked this bit Mick http://goo.gl/maps/F6RY6
What's the minimum width possible for a shared use path?The path used to be quite wide!
That's at the bottom of Florence Road to the left at the crossroads of Moss Side A390 looking east (locally known as Long Hill) and Fullaford Road to Harrowbarrow to the right.
Nasty spot.

Every now and again, the path is strimmed(?) and the debris is left on the path. Very slowly, the grass and weeds have encroached onto the tarmac making it narrow. Maybe 4ft now, whereas it was probably 8ft+ when originally made.

Re: Using cycle paths

23 November 2014 - 3:59pm
Mick F wrote:Yep.
One of my "shouters" lives locally though I don't know him particularly. He overtook me and gesticulated vigorously at me to use the path. I caught him up in the village, just as he was reversing into his drive.

I stopped and shouted back at him!
"Don't you EVER tell me where I should or should not ride my bike! Do YOU have a bike?"
Sheepishly, "No".
"Well, stop telling ME what to do, get yourself a bike and YOU ride on that stupid path!"
"But our taxes have paid for it!"
"Well, YOU ride on it then!"

I rode away, and since then he's never so much as looked at me again.


This is the path heading uphill.


https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=callin ... 12,45,,0,0

Lol. Well said. I usually dont shout back unless it's a midget or a weak looking woman

Been on that path several times.

Re: Using cycle paths

23 November 2014 - 3:56pm
Tigerbiten wrote:I tend not to use cycle paths as I don't trust that I can on and off one safely where I want to and I can also get from one end to other on one without getting blocked by anti-cycling barriers/a post/ a narrow place/ etc/ etc.
My trouble is I ride something that's as non-standard as you can get, a recumbent trike towing a trailer behind it so it's 3 meters long and almost a meter wide.
The main time I do use them is going uphill when I'm going sub 5 mph, but I need to be able to get on it on the way up as I drop below 10 mph and leave it at the top safely as I pick up speed. so unless I ridden past the stretch and I know I can do that, I'll not use it unless I'm wanting to go slow.

Are you sure those barriers arent for motocyclists. I've not seen one for cyclists.

Re: Skateboarders v cyclists..amazing footage

23 November 2014 - 3:39pm
+1

Those skateboarders wouldn't have caught ME up on my Mercian, despite their wonderful skill.
(rather them than me!)

Any road up, there ain't no way that skateboard wheels circa 2" diameter would spin as freely as 700c at that speed.

Re: Is it time for radicalism?

23 November 2014 - 3:36pm
al_yrpal wrote:Yes it is, but unfortunately the British public isn't yet ready to support it.
But no one is even attempting to educate them to a disaster unfolding before their eyes.

Theres a lot more persuading to be done. The good news is that in the last few years many more people are riding bikes for pleasure and some of them will be adding their voices to ours. The way forward is evolution, not revolution, which will only alienate those that have to be persuaded.

Al
Only when persuasion has any effect can it be of any use.
It seems we've been trying that particular tactic for more years than I care to remember and it's wet lettuce approach isn't working or if it is,it's having very little effect.
The kind of radicalism I'm meaning isn't revolution of the violent kind,more of a peaceful disruption of the satus quo for the betterment of the whole not just cyclists,though cyclists would benefit as a result.
As it is,no one's gaining as traffic levels and journey times increase on an overloaded road system,whilst at the same time frustration and stress levels rack up,leading increasingly to pretty scary manoeuvres by some.
Along with an almost complete lack of traffic policing,you have a recipe for potential increasing disaster.
Recent history teaches us that building more roads only alleviates the problem for a very short time,which becomes shorter as time goes by as more people use cars as their main mode of transport.
Yet our politrickians(of the five year democratic(sic)cycle)continue with the same stupid,short term thought pattern,which anyone with a grain of sense who takes a small amount of time to think it through can see things can't continue as they are.
We can't even maintain the present road network to a high enough standard as it is,let alone building new ones that we won't be able to maintain in the future!
When do we stop the lunacy,take stock,and think outside the box(private one on wheels)?

In a traffic sense(sense being the operative word),as a nation are simply not getting there and we'll not be getting there even more slowly until we see the folly of the unfettered and universal use of the private motor.

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

23 November 2014 - 3:35pm
Edwards wrote:Bicycler wrote:If something is worth doing it's worth doing well. If their wording can trip up people who know the law no doubt it can confuse those who don't. I also think it would be best for them not to offer sloppy legal advice for free if they want to attract paying clients.

They managed to catch out a few cyclists who think they know the law about ASL. First you must cross the stop line to get to the Advanced stop line.
The exact legal entry point was not asked for.

This quiz highlights why we are better off with proper legal representation when things end up in court. In law the exact wording is every thing an it is easy o trip people up.

The cycle lane does not have the stop line, you don't cross it, you take a lane in whuch it does not exist.

Re: Using cycle paths

23 November 2014 - 3:30pm
Yep.
One of my "shouters" lives locally though I don't know him particularly. He overtook me and gesticulated vigorously at me to use the path. I caught him up in the village, just as he was reversing into his drive.

I stopped and shouted back at him!
"Don't you EVER tell me where I should or should not ride my bike! Do YOU have a bike?"
Sheepishly, "No".
"Well, stop telling ME what to do, get yourself a bike and YOU ride on that stupid path!"
"But our taxes have paid for it!"
"Well, YOU ride on it then!"

I rode away, and since then he's never so much as looked at me again.


This is the path heading uphill.
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=callin ... 12,45,,0,0

Re: Using cycle paths

23 November 2014 - 3:18pm
This is the problem with approving cycle paths on the grounds that they are better than nothing for unconfident cyclists isn't it? It puts the rest of us in the unenviable position of trying to explain why we don't use something which appears to have been built for our benefit but in fact never considered our needs.

Personally I think usage is a good test of cycle path quality. Cyclists will use whatever they feel is most convenient and safest. If cyclists don't use a piece of infrastructure, you need to question that infrastructure not the cyclists.

Re: Is it time for radicalism?

23 November 2014 - 2:51pm
Yes it is, but unfortunately the British public isn't yet ready to support it. Theres a lot more persuading to be done. The good news is that in the last few years many more people are riding bikes for pleasure and some of them will be adding their voices to ours. The way forward is evolution, not revolution, which will only alienate those that have to be persuaded.


Al

Re: Using cycle paths

23 November 2014 - 2:38pm
I tend not to use cycle paths as I don't trust that I can on and off one safely where I want to and I can also get from one end to other on one without getting blocked by anti-cycling barriers/a post/ a narrow place/ etc/ etc.
My trouble is I ride something that's as non-standard as you can get, a recumbent trike towing a trailer behind it so it's 3 meters long and almost a meter wide.
The main time I do use them is going uphill when I'm going sub 5 mph, but I need to be able to get on it on the way up as I drop below 10 mph and leave it at the top safely as I pick up speed. so unless I ridden past the stretch and I know I can do that, I'll not use it unless I'm wanting to go slow.

Re: Skateboarders v cyclists..amazing footage

23 November 2014 - 2:25pm
If it's being touted as a display of skateboarders blowing away cyclists one has to say that the cyclists weren't exactly trying very hard. Noticed very little pedalling and the cyclists taking the long way around the bends to let the skateboarders have the racing line.

On the other hand one has to admire the bottle and skill of the boarders...even if it had little regard for the wellbeing of other road users - one slip and they could have taken a few of the cyclists out on the bends.

Is it time for radicalism?

23 November 2014 - 1:12pm
The facility fanatics thread has reached a point where posters are beginning to mention the perceived(if not real) dangers of cycling and the possiblity that potential cyclists are put off by it.
The use of helmets and hi-viz clothing as some kind of solution to that perception is,frankly bonkers as I'm sure most would agree.
These barriers need to be seen for what they are,a pandering to bad driving and victim blaming,and cycling accepted as a normal activity,not just some sport related,sub cultural pastime practiced by ultra fit specimens with Strava accounts chasing times in a fantasy frenzy,or poor people who can't afford a car .
IMHO until that happens cycling in the UK cannot be seen as a more rational,normal and pleasurable means of getting about.
The key to this is curbing motor traffic speed and parking(for all but the infirm)and instilling into the driving populous their responsibility's to other road users and more particularly vulnerable roads,and that the roads aren't theirs but belong to everyone,whether they use them or not and whom they must respect.
The erroneous belief by some road users, that cyclists are a 'problem' who don't pay to use the roads ie;VED,insurance,number plates,and usual tripe,needs to be once and for all overtly dismissed and discredited publicly by the authorities at national and local level,until the message has sunk in to the heads of the more moronic occupants we share these islands with.
And that cycling is a solution to a car centric 'problem',of course this needs some bold politricks and politrickians not noted for their truth,upstanding or realism perhaps the point is somewhat moot,unless they're frightened into doing something positive,their failure of re-election to the gravy train,er sorry house of commons,being their worst fear .Apologies to any good MP's reading.
The reluctance of UK government to accept that we're reaching gridlock and that building more roads isn't the answer to a long standing problem beggers belief IMHO.
Head in the sand attitudes being only overshadowed by the head own rectum approach,to a problem that will only worsen until a completely fresh outlook is taken on transport and is a quality of life issue that needs addressing,soon.
Daily public transport in an overcrowded country is not being met sufficiently unless you're prepared for a high cost personal vehicle or unreliable,jammed-in-like-cattle public transport,that groans under the burden whilst charging exorbitant fees for the privilege.
The bicycle isn't the whole answer,but can part of it,who's spin off of fresh air and exercise leading to better health,something sadly lacking in many peoples lives,imprisoned by a lack of such advantages.
If public transport were attractive enough ie;clean,reliable,convenient and affordable,as roads clear of private vehicles space would then be clear for more cyclists to use the roads and where necessary cyclepaths and streets and pavements not clogged up with unused vehicles of an evening,not to mention the freeing up of city centre car park space wher people could actually live
AFAICS two things stand in the way of this utopia(sic)the motoring ego,and the massaging of it by those making huge profits from it,including the government.
It seems to me that in tailwaggingdogland,anyone wishing to buck the trend of private car use,on poking his/her head above the parapet has to learn to duck with increasing agility and should that agility fail them occasionally,they'll be victim blamed in the classic UK tradition for not having the good sense to be 'normal'.As motoring crime is increasingly looked upon by the powers that be,as an acceptable part of everyday life which is overshadowed by the huge 'benefits'(read profits)made by both government and the motor/petrochemical industries.
Not to mention what we'd do with all the cars should utopia be attained
I don't have any other answers outside of what some would see as radical though to me seem sane,one thing's for sure,life on UK roads for anyone using them is becoming an increasingly stressful,unpleasant,and increasingly unreliable*,daily experience,and unless something fairly radical is done will only worsen

The roads are dangerous.... .... but only when used

* a week last Friday,due to a truck turning over shedding it's load(not an unknown phenomena,as are cars shunting one another causing the same mayhem) on a motorway I was nowhere near,it took me 4+ hours to drive 20miles home which included 1hour to drive the last 2miles.This was slightly uncommon but 2hour delays are a regular occurence for motorway users in the conurbations of this green and pleasant land.

Archive

  • Patron: Her Majesty The Queen
  • President: Jon Snow
  • Chief Executive: Paul Tuohy
  • Cyclists' Touring Club (CTC): A company limited by guarantee, registered in England no.25185. Registered as a charity in England and Wales No 1147607 and in Scotland No SC042541

 

Terms and Conditions