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Updated: 2 hours 6 min ago

Re: New Dawes 26"

19 February 2015 - 4:33pm
Tacascarow wrote:bretonbikes wrote:stuartg wrote:Most goods nowadays are disposable and we live in a disposable culture, if it breaks or the colour not right - bin it! To be fair the quality of some of the older bikes, is amazing compared to newer models. I do feel that a lot of the UK manufacturers tried to compete with overseas manufacturers on price. This meant movement of manufacturing overseas (which I don't have a problem with) but poor quality controls, design and materials (which I do have a problem with).

The manufacturers that have done well, know their market - just look at Brooks, you can argue they are overpriced but they are good quality (despite a slip up with overseas manufacturing) and they know their market. I think Dawes are calling this one right.

To be fair the quality of frame building is much better now - the old Orbit and Dawes frames I used to buy 25 years ago were frequently poorly aligned and I've had to file many a dropout to fit the wheel properly. Since they've gone to Far Eastern/Eastern European manufacture all the frames I've received have been spot-on - sad but true - wish it were otherwise...
That probably has more to do with computer controlled machinery than country of manufacture.

of course - and the problem with the UK was it had a few blokes in sheds brazing up stuff at maximum speed and getting neither quality nor price. It's the history of British engineering (compared to our rivals) for the last 150 years.

Re: Rotterdam > Istanbul - Which bike?

19 February 2015 - 4:03pm
nirakaro wrote:I think in your particular circumstances, you’re wise to go for a new bike.
Re the spoke count, there is a tendency on forums like this to counsel perfection.

Yeah perfection counselling is great and I thank those that provide it, it's the best way for me to learn. However, even though I'll take it all on board... I might not abide by everything. For example with the spoke count; if the bike has 32 spokes then I'm going with 32 spokes. My knowledge and budget don't really stretch to replacing wheels just yet.

But please all, please still recommend the best ways

nirakaro wrote:BTW, whereabouts in Leeds are you?

City centre, can you recommend any routes I can practice on?

Re: Rotterdam > Istanbul - Which bike?

19 February 2015 - 3:59pm
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying 32 spokes is no good. However the wheels reviewed are machine built and judging by the set I have, the weak point on a good bike. I also suspect the poster is going to hit some poor surfaces on the way to Istanbul and confesses to little knowledge about bikes. E. G Do they know how to true a wheel or replace a spoke? Hence my comment.......

Re: New Dawes 26"

19 February 2015 - 3:51pm
bretonbikes wrote:stuartg wrote:Most goods nowadays are disposable and we live in a disposable culture, if it breaks or the colour not right - bin it! To be fair the quality of some of the older bikes, is amazing compared to newer models. I do feel that a lot of the UK manufacturers tried to compete with overseas manufacturers on price. This meant movement of manufacturing overseas (which I don't have a problem with) but poor quality controls, design and materials (which I do have a problem with).

The manufacturers that have done well, know their market - just look at Brooks, you can argue they are overpriced but they are good quality (despite a slip up with overseas manufacturing) and they know their market. I think Dawes are calling this one right.

To be fair the quality of frame building is much better now - the old Orbit and Dawes frames I used to buy 25 years ago were frequently poorly aligned and I've had to file many a dropout to fit the wheel properly. Since they've gone to Far Eastern/Eastern European manufacture all the frames I've received have been spot-on - sad but true - wish it were otherwise...
That probably has more to do with computer controlled machinery than country of manufacture.

Re: Rotterdam > Istanbul - Which bike?

19 February 2015 - 2:11pm
I think in your particular circumstances, you’re wise to go for a new bike.
Re the spoke count, there is a tendency on forums like this to counsel perfection. If you’re very big, or carry a very heavy load, or ride very hard over rough surfaces, it could be an issue; but I’ve toured for years on 32-spoke wheels, never thought about it, and never had a problem.
BTW, whereabouts in Leeds are you?

Re: Rotterdam > Istanbul - Which bike?

19 February 2015 - 1:53pm
Again thanks for the information, things like wheel spokes are so off my radar - I just didn't realise I'd have to think about that!

Regarding second hand. I still have a couple of issues which mean I can't go down that route. Firstly that I'm really limited on time and finding a secondhand bike, in my area, specifically for touring and in my frame size (small) is really quite difficult. Secondly, even if I happened to chance on a bike I actually wouldn't know what I was looking at. The seller could feasibly remove all the decent components and replace them with cheap alternatives and I wouldn't even know.

I'm seeing the Revolution again tonight for a test ride.

Hopefully be test riding the Dawes and Fuji soon too, but they have to be ordered in.

There's also this, reduced at Evans. They seem to have a few Jamis bikes, but are they any good?

Jamis Aurora 2015 Touring Bike
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/jam ... 0#features

Re: New Dawes 26"

19 February 2015 - 11:43am
stuartg wrote:Most goods nowadays are disposable and we live in a disposable culture, if it breaks or the colour not right - bin it! To be fair the quality of some of the older bikes, is amazing compared to newer models. I do feel that a lot of the UK manufacturers tried to compete with overseas manufacturers on price. This meant movement of manufacturing overseas (which I don't have a problem with) but poor quality controls, design and materials (which I do have a problem with).

The manufacturers that have done well, know their market - just look at Brooks, you can argue they are overpriced but they are good quality (despite a slip up with overseas manufacturing) and they know their market. I think Dawes are calling this one right.

To be fair the quality of frame building is much better now - the old Orbit and Dawes frames I used to buy 25 years ago were frequently poorly aligned and I've had to file many a dropout to fit the wheel properly. Since they've gone to Far Eastern/Eastern European manufacture all the frames I've received have been spot-on - sad but true - wish it were otherwise...

Re: New Dawes 26"

19 February 2015 - 11:32am
Most goods nowadays are disposable and we live in a disposable culture, if it breaks or the colour not right - bin it! To be fair the quality of some of the older bikes, is amazing compared to newer models. I do feel that a lot of the UK manufacturers tried to compete with overseas manufacturers on price. This meant movement of manufacturing overseas (which I don't have a problem with) but poor quality controls, design and materials (which I do have a problem with).

The manufacturers that have done well, know their market - just look at Brooks, you can argue they are overpriced but they are good quality (despite a slip up with overseas manufacturing) and they know their market. I think Dawes are calling this one right.

Re: New Dawes 26"

19 February 2015 - 11:31am
Back to the original post, I'm firmly on the side of 700c (about32mm) tyres for lanes / reasonable cycle tracks, with 26" for those (not me) who see themselves doing proper off-road routes. I'm happy with 26" on my tandem because of the extra mass, but I wouldn't want 26" on a solo bike destined for road use. When I tour it is in Western Europe (France, Italy, Switzerland, etc), not Nepal. I'm not going to change from that, so 700c is the best option for me. Happily, some manufacturers now offer otherwise identical bikes in 26" or 700c. You pay your money and you take your choice.

Re: New Dawes 26"

19 February 2015 - 11:25am
stuartg wrote:I can understand some preferring flat bars and agree a number of years ago this was the preference for new bikes. I am not sure flat bars were the only reason for the decline in the UK cycle industry, poor quality I feel was a contributory factor.

Currently their appears to be a renaissance in drop handle bar bikes, with the main US manufacturers pushing out 'adventure' bikes with drops. The growth of cycling on TV (track and TdeF), in my view, has made people question whether they are proper cyclist if they don't have drops! I am not sure whether the riders get the benefit of the drops (but I would also say that about the ridiculous gearing on most bikes for the occasional weekend warrior), but this does appear to be on trend at the moment. Good luck to Dawes if they can get this combo right.

Personally I prefer drops; with a set of ITM Marathons on my tourer, so probably around 30 different hand position on those!

I have always had the opposite view to that, the bikes were so well made that you never had to buy another one. Raleigh were sending stuff out of Nottingham thirty years ago that is still going strong and (in my opinion) better than a lot of stuff in this thread with the triple figure price tags.

Re: New Dawes 26"

19 February 2015 - 11:14am
I can understand some preferring flat bars and agree a number of years ago this was the preference for new bikes. I am not sure flat bars were the only reason for the decline in the UK cycle industry, poor quality I feel was a contributory factor.

Currently their appears to be a renaissance in drop handle bar bikes, with the main US manufacturers pushing out 'adventure' bikes with drops. The growth of cycling on TV (track and TdeF), in my view, has made people question whether they are proper cyclist if they don't have drops! I am not sure whether the riders get the benefit of the drops (but I would also say that about the ridiculous gearing on most bikes for the occasional weekend warrior), but this does appear to be on trend at the moment. Good luck to Dawes if they can get this combo right.

Personally I prefer drops; with a set of ITM Marathons on my tourer, so probably around 30 different hand position on those!

Re: Rotterdam > Istanbul - Which bike?

19 February 2015 - 10:22am
JBB wrote:I have the Edinburgh coop bike. It's a lovely ride and the gearing is good for a full load. However one of the tyres failed within days and the wheels are 32 spoke and past versions do not have a good reputation. I had no problems getting EBC to replace the tyre but swapped the wheels for a set of 36 spoke ones I had already, relegating the 32s to the hack.

I don't know the particular wheels, but I have some 32 spoke wheels that are 20 years old (they look similar, but maybe they are Rigida or something; whatever Raleigh was using on their entry level MTBs & hybrids 20 years ago). They have seen many miles of loaded touring, child carrying duties, weekly shopping, club riding, etc. I have in all that time, replaced 5 spokes. The brake surface is getting worn, and I will replace them, or at least the rims in the relatively near future.

It somewhat depends on what will be carried, but, IMO, 32 spokes is enough for many (maybe most) people doing loaded touring. It may not be enough for heavy people or a rough stuff expedition, but we're talking about a European tour. I'd have no qualms about doing the trip on 32 spoke wheels.

Re: New Dawes 26"

19 February 2015 - 10:18am
simonhill wrote:What I said was that people WANT flat bars on a bike like this.

You are all doing what has brought British industry to its knees over the last 50 years. You are telling the people what they need then providing it and then wondering why it doesn't sell!

If the hand position and access to the brakes is so important why do I see most riders on drops, not riding on the drops, not riding on the hoods, but riding on the flat tops? This always used to amuse me, people swear by drops, but looking at pictures in Cycle, most were on the tops.

I agree - I think Dawes have missed a trick by not doing a 'butterfly' bar version and axing the Tsunami (if they didn't want too many models). As for the '50 years' I couldn't agree more - it's what had me (and all the kids around me) - at the age of 12 - riding the same gearing as Eddy Merckx or falling off 'Choppers'...

Re: Rotterdam > Istanbul - Which bike?

19 February 2015 - 10:07am
I have the Edinburgh coop bike. It's a lovely ride and the gearing is good for a full load. However one of the tyres failed within days and the wheels are 32 spoke and past versions do not have a good reputation. I had no problems getting EBC to replace the tyre but swapped the wheels for a set of 36 spoke ones I had already, relegating the 32s to the hack.

In your case I would see it as a choice between the Fuji and the Dawes, the main difference being whether you want bar end shifters or STI shifters integrated with the brakes.

All more food for thought!
HTH
Julia

Re: Paris to London

19 February 2015 - 10:01am
I can't advise on routes, as I have never done this trip.

But for improving, I suggest biuling up gradually. Donæt try to do a 40 mile ride, if you arenæt fit for it. Ride a little bit further each time, or get used to one distance, tehn add 5 or 10 miles at a time.

Cyling often may have more benefit, so run errands by bicycle, commute by bike, if you can; once or twice per week, even if you canæt do it everyday. If you live too far away, try mixing transport modes. Drive and cycle, or if you use the train, ride your bike to a somewhat further station.

And remember that it is more down to hours in the saddle than distance, because you will go slower on a long journey, or carrying the shopping than commuting.

Good luck and enjoy the cycling

Re: New Dawes 26"

19 February 2015 - 9:28am
pwa wrote:It is as comfy and varied as I can make straight bars and it is okay, but drops are better.
That is my experience too. I have 2 with straight bars and bar ends but find that after only 30 miles or so it is very uncomfortable for my hands and shoulders. I have 5 with drops which are comfortable for very much longer than that. I seldom use the drops but use every conceivable alternative position regularly.

However - if drops/straights/butterfly/bull horn/ape hangers work for you then keep doing it.

Wheel size - 700C for me but I tend to tour in western Europe so availability if needed is not a problem.

Re: New Dawes 26"

19 February 2015 - 9:22am
I use a 26 inch wheel VSF FahrradManufaktur T400. It is a mainstream manufactured 26 inch tourer with flat bars and is available with a number of different options for levels of equipment. Mine has a Shimano XT group set an has proved to be ultra reliable and day long comfortable. These bikes are available readiy in Europe, over the Internet and at several retailers in Britain. It is true that I can go faster on my Galaxy but I've been able to go wherever I wanted to go on the T400, or rather I haven't found anywhere I couldn't go yet.

Re: New Dawes 26"

19 February 2015 - 9:04am
With my drop bars I rarely use the drops themselves and might well have sawn them off if it were not for the fact that I use bar end shifters. Mostly my hands move around the tops of the brakes (on the hoods), but for short periods I also use the top of the straight section of the bars. But because I have changed stems to give the reach I want I find the hoods just the right distance from the saddle, and I find the straight section of the bars a little too close to me to rest on for long periods. I suspect that people with drops who spend a lot of time on the tops of the bars (i.e. close to the stem) have too long a stem and find it a bit of a stretch to the hoods.

On my Thorn tandem I have straight bars (cut short, the way I like them) with Ergon grips and long bar ends. It is as comfy and varied as I can make straight bars and it is okay, but drops are better. Butterfly bars (at least the ones I've seen) are way too wide.

Re: New Dawes 26"

19 February 2015 - 8:42am
I have a bike with flats and a bike with drops. I prefer the drops. Its personal though. I would have thought though that Dawes would have done their market research and produced the bike that would sell best in its largest market (the UK). That's drops. On the continent it would have been flats. Meh.

Anyway. With the re-introduction of the ultra galaxy ti I wonder if you could get these for a much larger discount...

Re: New Dawes 26"

19 February 2015 - 3:08am
I ride with hands on drop when going fast (tailwind or road with too much trafic so "i do it as a sport")
I ride with hands on the hoods mainly in the moutain,going up. This is the most enjoyable cycling.
i ride on the flat bar when going slow and relax. As in cities.

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