CTC Forum - Touring & Expedition

Syndicate content
Discussion boards hosted by CTC, the national cycling charity
Updated: 2 hours 24 min ago

Re: Touring bike choice for people with long legs

2 hours 38 min ago
22camels wrote:I recently learnt that I have exceptionally long legs (88cm bare-foot standover) for my height (180cm)....... .......My formula is this. I need my seat to be 780mm vertically above the BB. Max bar height above BB = Stack + (Uncut steerer length - Head Tube Length) * SINE (head tube angle). I know I'm making a couple of assumptions and it might be out by a cm or two but it gives a meaningful comparison between bikes.

Another problem is that shops love to cut the steerers (to make them look pretty?) and even for bikes that would suit me, it's hard to find a test ride with the bars set up level, so I have to guess how it would feel if it were set up for me..

Anyone else have this issue?

By comparison my bare foot inside leg is 865mm so 15mm shorter than yours
I also like to ride fairly upright ie;nose of saddle to centre of compact drop bars 540mm,h/bars 40mm higher than the saddle.
On my Salsa Vaya's there's 35mm of spacers under 6deg 110mm stem flipped upward.
The problem I'm having is that if I measure my saddle height vertical above the BB(an unusual way to do it IMHO) I get 700mm for mine.
From BB to saddle inline with the seatube it's 730mm and from pedal axle at BDC inline with seatube 890mm(with 175mm cranks).
Your saddle would be,if I'm reading your post correctly,80mm higher than mine even though your inside leg is only 15mm longer than mine ,I'm aware I ride pretty flat footed and some people ride on their toes ie; feet point to the ground,but still 80mm is a lot of difference.

My Vaya's are both 57cm frames the stem is 110mm,the saddle is 90mm behind the BB(to achieve KOPS) and the h'bars are 40mm higher than the saddle.I don't have any toe overlap with 40mm tyres,generous m/guard clearances,175mm cranks and size 47 shoes.I could ride a 58cm Vaya with 100or105mm stem and less spacers under it.
To get a clear picture or your requirements IMO the best way to measure your riding position is
a)saddle height to pedal axle with the cranks @ BDC inline with the seatube(Mine is 890mm).
b)saddle set back measured vertically behind the BB(mine is 90mm).
c)nose of saddle to either centre of the h/bar tops(mine is 540mm).
d)h/bar tops height in relation to the saddle(mine are 40mm higher than the saddle)

Going off your measurements I suspect a 57or58cm Surly LHT or DT,or a 57or58cmSalsa Vaya will be big enough but I like to see you measurements a to d, first.

Re: Is insurance for a tour in Europe a worthwhile purchase?

3 hours 1 min ago
For Europe I have an annual E111 top up policy. Like you I'm not too concerned about loss of baggage etc - although there is some cover for that.
If my bike is stolen that's a problem but I could probably replace my touring bike with something secondhand if necessary.
Obviously third party liability is something to consider ( although there is some cover from CTC membership. )

Re: Would this bike be a suitable entry level tourer

3 hours 10 min ago
My reason for buying a bike with suspension is that I have problems with my neck. I had to stop using a road bike as my neck was too painful riding it. I thought that the extra benefit of front suspension may have made things easier going over bumps and jar my neck a bit less.



[/quote]
I think ipswitchcycler has hit the nail on the head. If you have a more upright position and larger section tyres you will probably solve that particular difficulty.

Re: Touring possibly the South of France along the coast

3 hours 19 min ago
The area around Toulouse is fairly flat. From there you can head along the Canal du Midi for some distance (or roads parallel to as the surface isn't always very good). You could probably find a flat(tish) route to Perpignan or Narbonne. There are some flat coast roads but somewhere like Argeles - sur - Mer can get very busy and further south towards the Spanish border is quite lumpy.
As others have said the Cote d'Azur area can be quite busy.
You could of course try the Atlantic coast which offers other possibilities.

Re: Touring possibly the South of France along the coast

3 hours 29 min ago
The coast is a bit too busy for my tastes but a little inland is some of the most pleasant cycling in the world. But to prevent it being too lumpy you would have to study the maps carefully to keep to valley bottoms as much as possible. And of course, make sure you have the lowest gears possible.

Re: Touring possibly the South of France along the coast

3 hours 37 min ago
I rode from Toulouse to Nice last June great weather in the 30s every day. As I expected that hugging the coast would be busy I stayed in land and there were great roads and plenty to see. We went via Tarascon (great Castle with camping next door), Avignon, as we were ahead on schedule over the Ventoux (which obviously can be missed). We were planning to camp in Vence (just West of Nice) but this was busy so we headed inland again and stayed somewhere else and then came into Nice from the North.

Re: Would this bike be a suitable entry level tourer

3 hours 51 min ago
Do you think it could be the more sporty position of a road bike that might have aggravated your neck?

Re: Gluten Free

5 hours 2 min ago
No help at all, but I have been gluten (++) free for nearly 15 years now.

Most places will do a jacket potato, or chips etc. so there will be more places than you think. A decent fish and chip shop can steam the fish without batter (depending on the level of allergy/intolerance you might be able to use the batter as a bowl....)

In terms of normal meals look to the Far East, where much of the stuff you expect to be flour based is actually gramm flour or rice flour.

Re: Touring possibly the South of France along the coast

6 hours 41 min ago
I think you will find it very busy, very built up and not very pleasant cycling. At the beginning of May at least it won't be too hot or too busy but I wouldn't think it would make for a pleasant or relaxing bike ride. Unfortunately built up coastal areas rarely do.

If I were you I would choose somewhere more rural where you have a good choice of quiet roads, small towns and campsites better suited to the touring cyclist than the family holiday by the beach.

NB I haven't been to that area for a long time, but I used to live in Cannes many years ago. Also most reports on cycling that bit of coast back up what I have said.

Happy to be contradicted!

Re: Would this bike be a suitable entry level tourer

12 hours 39 min ago
Thanks for all of the great advice. The other possibility I thought of was a hybrid bike. Halfords have a Boardman MX Sport for £405 at the moment if you use a discount code. It can take a pannier and mudguards. With what I would save on the discount, I could afford to have these fitted as well. It weights 13.8kg. Again it has front suspension forks. My reason for buying a bike with suspension is that I have problems with my neck. I had to stop using a road bike as my neck was too painful riding it. I thought that the extra benefit of front suspension may have made things easier going over bumps and jar my neck a bit less.

http://www.halfords.com/cycling/bikes/h ... tAodNDcAXw

Sorry for the huge link

Re: Touring frame differences

30 March 2015 - 10:30pm
b1ke wrote:I've never bought a made to measure tourer. Everything I've ridden has been second hand and I've toured well over 10,000 miles on them without issue. I swap stems and bars if necessary, same with tyres and then fit racks and my Brooks saddle.

I've toured on tandems, a cargo bike, mountain bikes and touring bikes (including a Sherpa). And I liked them all for various reasons. And probably disliked bits about some of them as well. But I lived with what I had because I preferred to save my cash for the road.

My personal opinion is that a lot of the talk around touring bikes is hype. Comparing the Sherpa to, for example, a Kona Explosif, I preferred the Kona for it's lightness and responsiveness. The Sherpa however felt a lot more robust and had every braze-on imaginable, plus it had good heel clearance. Whether that justifies the price is the decision of the buyer.

Can't comment on 700c wheels because I don't tend to ride those bikes, but I can't see why the same wouldn't be true.

hear hear. I agree make the most of what you have rather than go after the ideal bike. When I bought my dawes 1-Down it was bought on the spur of the moment now 15 years or so ago at a large discount. Being a large person it wasnt a good fit at the time but by changing the steerer stem to a long one from Rose cycles and a seat pin which allowed me to push the seat further back - total cost less than £60 - the bike works rather well - the reach is what it should be and the seat relative to the pedals almost correct and certainly some thing that can be ignored - the body has some flexability. The 46/36/26 gearing couldnt be better ( for me now ) and the sti has proved very reliable and stable requiring little or no adjustment for years.

Re: Touring frame differences

30 March 2015 - 9:59pm
I've never bought a made to measure tourer. Everything I've ridden has been second hand and I've toured well over 10,000 miles on them without issue. I swap stems and bars if necessary, same with tyres and then fit racks and my Brooks saddle.

I've toured on tandems, a cargo bike, mountain bikes and touring bikes (including a Sherpa). And I liked them all for various reasons. And probably disliked bits about some of them as well. But I lived with what I had because I preferred to save my cash for the road.

My personal opinion is that a lot of the talk around touring bikes is hype. Comparing the Sherpa to, for example, a Kona Explosif, I preferred the Kona for it's lightness and responsiveness. The Sherpa however felt a lot more robust and had every braze-on imaginable, plus it had good heel clearance. Whether that justifies the price is the decision of the buyer.

Can't comment on 700c wheels because I don't tend to ride those bikes, but I can't see why the same wouldn't be true.

Re: Touring possibly the South of France along the coast

30 March 2015 - 9:46pm
Well the trouble with this coast is that, in the main, a main road follows it and if you want to get off it it can be very lumpy.
I found getting round Monaco and into Nice quite busy. True the promenade of Nice was nice but it soon ran out on the western side.
Having ridden the velodysee as well I don't think you will find this area as accommodating.
My sympathies re the chemo - if you are just getting over it don't over estimate your capabilities. I know it affects different people different ways and it depends on the cocktail but I have lived with someone who took many many months to recover strength.
Good luck

Re: Touring frame differences

30 March 2015 - 9:27pm
Thanks for that Gaz to long for me so.looking for 53 cm or 52 i reckon.height would be good tho..
very confusing these frame geometry .

Re: Touring frame differences

30 March 2015 - 9:19pm
jags wrote:That SPA tourer looks a cracking bike.
colin on the 51cm frame is the top tube 51cm.just curious.
Top tube is 54.4cm, effective top tube 56.4cm
Spa publish the frame geometry: http://www.spacycles.co.uk/smsimg/uploa ... ometry.jpg

Re: Touring frame differences

30 March 2015 - 8:20pm
That SPA tourer looks a cracking bike.
colin on the 51cm frame is the top tube 51cm.just curious.



jags.

Re: Touring frame differences

30 March 2015 - 6:34pm
22camels wrote:Apologies for my poor communication skills. I really should not have started these two threads at the same time! If you read carefully, I am asking a very different question in this thread. It is about what makes two steel touring frames, of similar weight, and geometry, one rated for expedition touring (e.g. a Thorn Sherpa) , the other for light/medium and more sporty touring (e.g. a Salsa Vaya), different. How much of it is to do with weight distribution between tubes, tube thicknesses. And how much of it is it to do with image/hype/marketing/fashion/trend.

A great deal of "marketing", a little substance would be my first reply. If you are just looking at "categories" of frames its almost pointless.
If you have 2 specific frames in mind, there are some things to look at which might be important.....
disc forks need to be stiffer (heavier?) than forks for rim brakes, particularly long (suspension corrected) forks.
An expedition bike needs long chainstays to clear heels and big panniers, stable steering also.(maybe!) A long wheelbase is considered detrimental to ability to do quick turns (for "sportier" bikes), but for a touring bike I like the feel of a stable, long wheelbase rig, and I like sometimes to ride in boots with big tyres and mudguards without toe overlap.
If you want to compare Thorns in any detail, you are hampered by their "secret" geometry.
Just to take your "Fargo" example, with a long trail.....that would normally rule it out as a "fun" bike, (because the steering will be "slow") and place it in the stable/expedition category. .....but does it have long chainstays and lots of toe clearance to go with it, or would you risk kicking the panniers and front tyre/mudguard?

Re: Touring bike choice for people with long legs

30 March 2015 - 6:26pm
the Spa steel tourers do look nice, unfortunately I am looking for 26 inch wheels for parts availability.

regarding Thorn, yeah i've had thoughts about mixing it up a bit between their drop and straight bar setups too, but I think if I do end up going for the Sherpa, I'll go with their recommendation which is either 565S/600S for drops, or 565L/600L for straights and only retrofit if I really have to.. I'm not sure I really need that short a reach (I have longish arms too), guess it depends on how this neck thing evolves, I hope it's just a matter of spending more time in the saddle.

thanks for all the responses so far.

Re: Round the world on a unicycle

30 March 2015 - 5:03pm
Mick F wrote:Also, it tends to be single speed only.

I did read somewhere(?) that it's possible to fit a SA 3sp (fixed) to one. It would certainly help on longer runs on a road.
There is a Schlumpf-based 2 speed unicycle drive available.

Rick.

Re: Touring bike choice for people with long legs

30 March 2015 - 4:18pm
22camels wrote:...........
531colin - the spa cycles link you posted in the other thread, http://www.spacycles.co.uk/info/pedaltosaddle.php, is a good illustration of what i mean here. I need a saddle to pedal height of 37in, and in the photo (http://www.spacycles.co.uk/smsimg/uploa ... tourer.jpg) you see that in the recommended frame (57cm) presumably with the full steerer, the bars still barely reach the level of the saddle........................

Since we did all those photos, there is now a 60cm bike, which I have personally fitted quite happily to riders 6' 6".
Crotch to floor on me is about 32", saddle to pedal is about 34", that's this on a 54cm bike http://www.spacycles.co.uk/smsimg/uploads/tourer/5434tourer.jpg
I'm 5' 10", you are an inch taller than me with crotch to floor 88cm, that's about 34 1/2" , or 2 1/2" longer than my legs.
I actually designed the 54 for me, the 60 head tube is 2 1/2" taller than the 54, I would be ever so surprised if it were too small for you.
Since the photos, we have also changed the fork supplier, the steerer is now 350mm.....after all this time I have no idea what length the steerers in the photos were cut to.....you could probably scale it from the 700c wheel, if you had a mind to.
You can be considered to have long legs for your height, or a short torso for your height....that being the case, you might fit better on a 57 with an uncut steerer, as the reach is less, although if you also have long arms, it might all cancel out. (I have never heard of 1 1/8" steel steerers breaking.....ever).
The 60cm bike is huge....like a field gate with wheels.

Archive

  • Patron: Her Majesty The Queen
  • President: Jon Snow
  • Chief Executive: Paul Tuohy
  • Cyclists' Touring Club (CTC): A company limited by guarantee, registered in England no.25185. Registered as a charity in England and Wales No 1147607 and in Scotland No SC042541

Copyright © CTC 2015

Terms and Conditions